What lamp model is this - Kero or Fuel ?

Discussion in 'Pressure Lamp Discussion Forum' started by Kiwiboy00, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. Kiwiboy00

    Kiwiboy00 Subscriber

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    Im not sure what model of lamp this is, im guessing its 159........ Anyway im a little confused, it has a long brass fuel pickup tube that comes out with the valve when un-screwed.

    So im guessing this lamp is for coleman fuel and not kerosene due to the long brass fuel pick-up tube ?

    So what makes me query the set up of this lamp is it has a fat straight generator pictured below, not sure of the generator model. Also the burner has 2 dimples below the mixing chamber.

    i was under the impression that 2 dimples was for kerosene. But how can this be when it has the long brass fuel pick-up (pictured below)

    I was also told that the long brass pick-up would not work with kerosene, due to the internal set-up.

    Can someone please tell me the model number of this lamp, it is dated 1-47 has a long brass fuel pick-up that comes out when the valve is un-screwed, has a fat straight generator, the burner tube/frame has 2 dimples with the inserted baffled below the mixing chamber.

    I don’t understand why the burner would have 2 dimples that holds the baffle in place when the fuel pick-up cant be used with Kerosene.

    The photos were taken today of the strip down and clean. Hope someone can tell me a bit more about this lamp. Bottom of the lamp has no number markings.


    E3B962F7-BD25-4596-BC52-A9A60FC0DD03.jpeg BDF24FC0-27E5-4012-A83B-3B2AD6A8AD85.jpeg FF258D42-3920-44DE-81BA-083DCE89CA39.jpeg 44BDF6A3-3384-436B-A43A-19617F5DD167.jpeg 527ECCC5-D56B-4457-BC00-DD7E3256E372.jpeg 006A086D-DDDF-44CA-801D-183ACBDE1E5B.jpeg 890661A1-2E91-4EC8-9F27-E7E06D1B2DFA.jpeg E1289FE3-C6E7-45CF-B369-A2D1A4E74147.jpeg BD508D83-DE2C-4A86-A172-5F803FCF6668.jpeg 4620EFCA-0DEA-4987-A4F3-B276E5FBA5E5.jpeg 90082129-BD3E-4A8E-B706-45B9E3552567.jpeg
     
  2. peterthevet

    peterthevet Subscriber

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    Looks like a 159 or 159X. Paint looks original - there should be a stamp on base of tank stating model.
    One model for kerosene, one for Coleman fuel. I think essentially the same apart from air restrictor at base of air tube.
     
  3. Kiwiboy00

    Kiwiboy00 Subscriber

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    Hi peterthevet theres no stamp on the bottom tank, maybe 157 or 159. Has the baffling just under the mixing chamber and 2 dimples. But the fuel pick-up looks to be for fuel not kerosene.

    Date 1-47
     
  4. Matty

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    These lamps baffle me 3 ways to Sunday but after having a look @Mackburner PLC, I think it might be model 157.
     
  5. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I'm not certain, but it appears to be either a model 152 or model 152A which has a model 159 X handle fitted to it and the model 152 was a duel fuel lamp, (Coleman fuel or paraffin/kerosene), but it usually had an instruction sticker on the top of the tank, an example is shown via the first link below and if I recall correctly, the vapouriser/generator needed to be changed for the each type of fuel.

    The fourth link below shows the 152 instruction sticker, just scroll down the page.

    The 152A was Coleman fuel only.


    1948 Coleman 152

    1949 "A" Coleman 152A lamp

    159, 159X

    Coleman 152A
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  6. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    You were told wrong ! When using kero, simply open the valve fully after pre-heating with spirit.

    I agree with what Jeff says.

    Henry.
     
  7. phaedrus42

    phaedrus42 Subscriber

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    Lamps like the 159X which were intended for both kerosene and white gas did not have the instant lighting fuel-air tube assembly but only had a simple tube plus an alcohol pre-heat cup. They came with a removable restrictor in the air intake for use with white gasoline. They needed pre-heating for both fuels. They used the R55 generator.

    Lamps that had the instant-lighting fuel-air tubes were generally not intended for kerosene and also did not ship with an alcohol pre-heat cup. They generally used the 220 generator like the one above. The unmodified 220 (T44/T44G) generator will block up quite quickly with kerosene and will run very rich.

    As Jeff's links show, the T44K generator, also used later on the 231 kerosene lantern could be fitted for kerosene use. The restrictor tube referred to functions as a venturi rather than as an air restriction in order to improve the the mixing of the kerosene vapour and air.

    The 159X has a larger diameter air tube than for example the CQ and Canadian 118B and those do not run well on kerosene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  8. AussiePete

    AussiePete United States Subscriber

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    Hi @Kiwiboy00
    You lamp is either a Coleman 157C for Gasoline or it could be a 157X for kerosene. By your pictures, yours looks like mine, both yours and mine have the Coleman Fuel/Air (FA) tube fitted and is designed for Coleman fuel or Shellite.

    Here is mine, note, it’s the same valve setup and all the parts are similar to yours, my colour is not as good as yours.
    88D1E865-C2DA-429F-BB9C-CC5529531EE2.jpeg
    59ADE881-F241-4C5A-A6F3-0A129B53D3B6.jpeg 752F9059-C4C1-4CFA-ADC4-F036E534FE3A.jpeg 25AEBBA9-B0E0-45DC-B206-9FDB1AC8A2F1.jpeg
    Mine has the model number stamped on the bottom and was made in February 1948.

    Mine doesn’t have the dimples in the air intake tube. The inference of the dimples is that they are there to retain an air restriction tube inserted into the air intake tube for the use of kerosene. Mine uses the T44 generator, see my lamp parts, which has a .0008” jet for Coleman fuel. The R55 generator, with a .0008” jet, will run Coleman fuel and can also run on Kerosene as long as it is preheated.

    I would advise to run it first on Coleman fuel and see how it performs. Then empty out the fount and try kerosene. My gut feeling is, because of the Fuel air tube setup it’ll run nicely on Coleman fuel.
    You will have to empirically settle which fuel is the best, remembering when using kerosene you will need to have a preheater cup and I don’t see one in your pictures, that’s why my gut feeling it’s a 157C.
    Hope this helps.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  9. AussiePete

    AussiePete United States Subscriber

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    @Kiwiboy00
    The 157C and the 159X fount is 7” diameter 2 pint capacity where the 152 fount is a smaller 6” diameter 2 pint capacity. The 159X could run on Coleman fuel or kerosene by the removal of the restrictor from the air tube. Air restrictor in, it would run Coleman fuel, air restrictor out it would run on kerosene.
    So understanding the above it’s more probable that yours is a 159X.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  10. phaedrus42

    phaedrus42 Subscriber

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    The 159X has a straight fuel pickup tube and takes the R55 generator.
     
  11. AussiePete

    AussiePete United States Subscriber

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    @phaedrus42
    It’s bit of a conundrum trying to pin this model down. My gut feeling still points me to the 157C however the burner tube manifold on the 157C is the pressed brass one, as is mine. The lamp shown here, has a cast brass manifold. In the Coleman Collectors book page 78, it shows a 159X with a cast brass burner manifold. :-k
    Also we’re trying to identify from photos and not the actual article in our hands. Adding to the fray, one has to to ask “has any of the parts been substituted during its past”? As a sub note, the lamp shown here has no spirit preheater cup.
    Interesting hey ......
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  12. phaedrus42

    phaedrus42 Subscriber

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    @AussiePete , yes, it is a bit of a mystery. Over here I have seen numerous examples of both the stamped and cast brass burner galleries on the 157X and 159X. Even a few cast aluminium burner galleries, can you believe it! But they have invariably all had the straight fuel pickup tube, which is actually soldered onto the lower end of the riser tube and not on the valve. This is also true of the 128C and 168K.
    In my experience the best runners on kero are those which have the cast brass gallery and use the R55 generator.
     
  13. AussiePete

    AussiePete United States Subscriber

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    @phaedrus42
    That’s an unusual one, aluminium burner galleries. They must hold up to the heat OK.
    Both my 157C and @Kiwiboy00 157C/159X or whatever, have the Coleman FA tube, designed for easy start on Coleman fuel. :-k
    I know mine is as originally supplied from Coleman, I’m just a little suspicious that maybe Kiwiboy00’s may have had some parts interchanged before he got it. Then again, it may not have .... who knows. There also seems to be a lot of variations from the factory especially at model changes.
    Mysteries are good, they get the brain working :doh:
    Cheers mate
    Pete
     
  14. phaedrus42

    phaedrus42 Subscriber

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    @AussiePete , I think the main difference between the 157C and 157X is then probably the f/a tube. Between that and the 220 (T44) style generator I reckon it would be safe to assume it is not a 159X despite the style of the wooden handle. My best guess is that it has had parts swapped out or was assembled from parts of different models.

    Below on LHS 2 pics of 159X valves (2 styles) showing internal thread on valves, and ext. tapered thread on riser tube which has small internal diameter.
    On RHS 2 pics showing 157X valve with external thread , straight pickup tube and riser tube with both int. & ext. thread on riser tube which has larger internal diameter to accomodate the pickup tube or f/a tube.

    159x-valves.jpg 159x-riser-tube.jpg 157x-valve+tube.jpg 157x-riser-tube.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  15. AussiePete

    AussiePete United States Subscriber

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    @phaedrus42
    Yes, I see what you mean. It’s looking more and more like it’s a mixture of parts.
    It’s great to be able to discuss this with you, it’s been very interesting.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  16. phaedrus42

    phaedrus42 Subscriber

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    @AussiePete , yes, these discussions certainly sharpen my detailed knowledge of the lamps I have. I honestly did not expect to find a long pickup tube in that 157X. Thought they were the same as the 159X in that respect, so I took two of them apart and surprise surprise! :lol:
     
  17. Kiwiboy00

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    My apologies all for the late response, work has been crazy busy along with looking after my 2 year old daughter.

    Wow im speechless, what an amazing in-depth response I received from you all especially Pete & Phaedrus.

    This forum is amazing you all have gone out of your way to help, even to the point of taking detailed photos for me. Massive thank you its very much appreciated.

    I have cleaned and restored the lamp to the best of my ability but will need to contact Mike from Old Coleman to see if he has the two screws that hold the pump in place.

    Guessing Bunnings wont be stocking them lol talking about Bunnings i brought 20L Diggers Kerosene for $58.65 today.

    Not exactly sure how long this will stay good for before going bad. Only brought it for a backup incase of a disaster or an emergency. From what I’ve read kerosene can go bad and get contaminated where it becomes thick and stickY.

    I have stored the Kero in the shed but the heat worries me possibly causing it to go bad quicker. But at a guess if I don’t open it and leave it sealed can’t see how it will get contaminated and go bad.

    Guess time will tell

    Once again, Thankyou AussiePete, Matty, Peterthevet, Phaedrus, Jeff Johnson, Henry Plews you guys are a huge asset to this forum.

    Kind Regards
    Darren
     
  18. george

    george United States Subscriber

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    I wouldn't think kerosene would go bad that fast. I have had about two gallons in a plastic can for almost 18 months now and I see not real change to it. No gooey, sticky mess so far. I do keep it tightly sealed in that can, though.
     
  19. AussiePete

    AussiePete United States Subscriber

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    @george
    Maybe George, but does it still taste the same? Hic! ... hic! ..... :shock::doh:
     
  20. george

    george United States Subscriber

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    @AussiePete Pete, I'll have pass on that "taste test"!:-#
     
  21. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    If you keep your kero container sealed it will last a few years at least.

    Good price!

    Tony
     
  22. Matty

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    @Kiwiboy00

    Was the price of the Diggers Kerosene an on special price or their regular price?

    I won't be able to get to the mainland until next week at least so I'm hoping that is the regular price not just this weeks special.
     
  23. Kiwiboy00

    Kiwiboy00 Subscriber

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    Hi Matty i live on the Gold Coast and a place near me is selling it for $65.00 for 20L so I showed Bunnings and they price matched and beat the price. Below is my recipe from Bunnings.

    I also called up Diggers and inquired how long Kero would last, Tony the guy at Diggers said around 2 years.

    George and Tony appreciate your feedback, your both bang on basically with regards to the Kerosene.


    89468D11-80B2-4904-8362-B7FA0CDA843A.jpeg
     
  24. Matty

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    @Kiwiboy00 I'm about 45 minutes from the Gold Coast if I go by water. If southerlies are blowing it is about an hour. That also depends on the time of the week, on a weekend where a lot of boats are out and about I have to be a bit more careful. During the week, I can zip along pretty well and it might only be 30 minutes. I normally go to the Victoria Point Bunnings. I just take a ferry to the mainland and Bunnings is 5 minutes by car from the mainland ferry terminal.

    That is interesting that Bunnings beat the price by so much. If I am looking correctly, they reduced the kero by $28. I'm going to be using your MO from now on. Anytime I go to purchase something at Bunnings I'm going to try and find it cheaper elsewhere, via the internet, and show them the price. Nice tip - thanks!

    I reckon the 2 year shelf time for kerosene is a modest estimate. I believe it will last a lot longer than that as long as it is in a container that won't let light in. That's my school of life opinion, no scientific facts to support my claim.
     

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