8/1951 242B Made in Australia

Discussion in '242 & 246 letter variants, 2243' started by Graham-Melbourne, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. Graham-Melbourne

    Graham-Melbourne Australia Subscriber

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    Have completed an initial cleanup of my 8/51 242B. The fount nickel is a little marked from the shoulder upwards but don't want to risk damaging it by being more aggressive. (Long soak in soapy water then some Autosol polish as recommended on this forum.)

    Not sure what to do with the bail, it remains untouched. probably no different from most 242B except this was made in Australia...

    MADE IN AUSTRALIA
    BY ARRANGEMENT WITH
    COLEMAN LAMP & STOVE CO LTD
    CANADA
    PROPRIETOR OF REGISTERED TRADEMARK
    No 67296-JAN-14-1936​

    Enamal hood has a few chips but not too bad.
    Now need to find a globe for it, preferably in Australia as postage could be a killer. Any forum members in Australia have a spare that they would part with?


    20201129_131928.jpg 20201129_131928.jpg 20201129_131937.jpg 20201129_131957.jpg 20201129_132021.jpg 20201129_133556.jpg 20201129_133631.jpg 20201129_133638.jpg original_89b21558-e5a1-4210-aa82-701e59ebd697_20201129_132059.jpg
     
  2. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Graham-Melbourne

    That’s a nice example of the Aussie 242B. That one would have been made in Adelaide by Colton Palmer & Preston. It’s pretty early in the Aussie lineage. The earliest one I’ve been able to track down is @Nils Stephenson’s February 1951.


    Cheers

    Tony
     
  3. Walkop Australia

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    Looking good and should run well. I have a 242B but alas the font is totally rusted out.
     
  4. MYN

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    It looks good to me. The screw on the 3-piece filler cap looks a little different from the standard round headed screws. Looks like some kind of knurled pressure release screw found on some lanterns. Its a little blurry on that area.
     
  5. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Great piece of history and looks like it should work well
     
  6. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    It's cleaned up well!:thumbup:
     
  7. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Graham-Melbourne

    I think @MYN us right about the filler cap. Can you post a photo of it? It looks a bit like an old Austramax filler cap.:-k If so, it should not be used to release pressure when he lamp is running or hot.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  8. Sedgman

    Sedgman Subscriber

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    @Graham-Melbourne

    Re the bail: Sand it down and if its close to bare metal, treat for any remaining rust, and then paint it with a silver or aluminium finish. Works a treat.
     
  9. Graham-Melbourne

    Graham-Melbourne Australia Subscriber

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    Here is the filler cap. Seems to seal correctly when snugged down. (New washer)


    20201130_110158.jpg
     
  10. MYN

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    Well I think it'll still work. The screw looks like its been replaced with a cheese-headed one instead.
     
  11. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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  12. Sedgman

    Sedgman Subscriber

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    @Tony Press @MYN @Graham-Melbourne

    I believe the cheese head screws are correct on the filler caps for the 242B Sport-Lite Australian models. I have quite a few, and all my Australian made ones have the 5/32" BSW steel cheese head bolts in the filler cap. My 1935 Canadian models have hexagonal heads but all other Canadian models that I own, have round heads.

    We can also push back the early date for Australian made Coleman 242B 'Sport-Lite' lanterns to July 1950.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  13. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Thanks, for that, @Sedgman. You are correct! I checked a Canadian, and when I just looked at my Aussie 242Bs I saw they were all cheesehead screws.](*,)

    My apologies @Graham-Melbourne: your cap is correct.


    Cheers

    Tony
     
  14. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Sedgman

    On tracking back to the origin of my comment that “the earliest one I’ve been able to track down is @Nils Stephenson ’s February 1951”, I realise that it’s not clear to me whether Nils was referring to an Australian-made 242B, or another Aussie made lantern (249).

    So I suppose it’s a good time to clarify this point.

    Nils, are you able to recall whether your comment about the earliest dated Aussie-made Coleman lantern, February 1951, was a 242B Sport-Lite?



    Cheers

    Tony
     
  15. MYN

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    Thanks for the correction on the cheese head screw @Sedgman
    5/32" BSW?
    I thought Coleman only used the UN or ASME standards for the dimensions. Perhaps Australian-mades are a little different?
     
  16. Sedgman

    Sedgman Subscriber

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    @MYN
    Interesting comment. Certainly correct as far as the Aussie 242B as I replaced the screw on a recent lantern fill cap with a brass one. I like to think of it as a good upgrade. :lol: I will keep a closer watch on some other threads when I am fixing things. The different threads on all these old lamps are fascinating but also a nuisance at times.

    Best wishes
     
  17. Graham P

    Graham P Australia Subscriber

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    There's an Australian 2-51 249 (Kero ) hiding on a shelf in Albury
     
  18. MYN

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    What I have for the screw is #10-32 UNF, round head.
     
  19. Nils Stephenson

    Nils Stephenson Founder Member

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    @Tony Press
    I don't know where the Feb 51 comes from. The earliest 242B I have is 2/52 and the earliest 249 is 10/50.
     
  20. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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  21. Sedgman

    Sedgman Subscriber

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    Re the Filler Cap screw on an Australian made Coleman 242B 'Sport-Lite'

    @MYN as I said earlier, your question on what Coleman used, threadwise, is an interesting one. In any event what fits and works is probably good enough. However, I am a fan of your posts and knowledge and logically it makes sense to me that Coleman would probably be using UN standards (ie UNC or UNF threads). I have double checked following your post about the size of the round head bolts.

    You suggested or measured that the filler cap bolt may be #10 – 32 UNF and in all sincerity because the agreement between the USA, Canada and UK was, from 1948, to use UNC and UNF, it makes perfect sense that most likely Coleman (USA or Canada) may have been using these threads on the 242B lanterns and probably most other lanterns. I guess in the early fifties they may also have been already tooled up, or for other reasons still using Whitworth threads. I would have to accept the advice of others on this.

    I guess one simple way for me to know for sure if it was UNF or BSW/BSF is whether the thread pitch is 60 deg or 55 deg but I have no way of telling.

    There is also the issue of whether the Canada round head bolts you measured are different to what was used in Australia on the 242B and 249 models.

    Anyway, I have remeasured the cheese head bolt in the filling caps as follows:

    Model 242B Filler Caps

    Diameter = 01.50” (avg of three measurements; in fact all the same)

    TPI = 32

    Construction steel and length 1/4"

    20201201_082502 - Copy.jpg
    Picture shows vernier measuring threads over 1/8"

    My 5/32” Brass Bolts (presumed to be BSW as 5/32” BSW has 32 tpi)

    Diameter = 0.151” (avg of three measurements)

    TPI = 32

    20201201_092330 - Copy.jpg

    When I screw both back in they both work the same and seem to have the same amount of ‘looseness’.

    Now you have suggested #10 – 32 UNF so I note we are comparing a UNF thread to a BSW thread which is interesting as usually UNF should equate to BSF, both being fine threads.

    According to texts on the Internet #10 – 32 (which can only be UNF; not UNC #10 -24) can be identified by measuring the bolt diameter at 0.190” which is close to 3/16”.

    10-32 Threads
    The number “10” is a size designator with no numerical meaning. The number “32” refers to 32 threads per inch. You can identify a 10-32 screw by measuring the diameter at exactly 3/16″ (4.76 mm).
    What is the difference between 10-32, 12-24, and M6 rack screws? | CyberPower

    This is why, I am still inclined to refer to the bolt size as 5/32” BSW (because the diameter is much smaller than 0.190”)

    As I say clearly a thread angle tool would confirm one way or another as I do realise the whole question of bolt sizes is a thorny one and anyone working with lamps, guns or anything else involving small bolts, can be excused for being driven to despair at times.

    I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about what should have been used in the States and logic suggests it should be UNF or UNC.

    Best wishes
     
  22. MYN

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    That was a very detailed comparison and assesment, @Sedgman
    I had been checking out all these in the past due to the lacking of Coleman parts in my area. There had been times when I had to actually make or fabricate some of the parts locally. And UN screws, taps and dies sizes are pretty uncommon here. We mostly use either metric or BS.
    I've asked for the dimensions on certain parts over at the Coleman Collectors Forum in the past too. The replies I got pointed to UN sizes. But I'd say those had been mostly US or Canadian oriented.
    For the rest of the World,..Europe, Asia, Australia continents, British Standard and Metric had been and still the norm.
    I'm sure there must be exceptions by Coleman to suite the situation in favour of both the manufacturer and the user.
     
  23. Sedgman

    Sedgman Subscriber

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    The filler cap diameter above should be 0.150" and not 01.50".
     
  24. MYN

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    @Sedgman ,
    5/32"-32 BSW is pretty much the same diametre as the #8-32 UNC screw. The main difference would be the pitch angles of the threads. 55° for BSW and 60° for UNC.
    My reply on the #10-32 UNF was for the filler cap of the 237.
    The caps for the 242 or 249 are smaller in diametre. Perhaps the screws are smaller too.
    I do not have both the 242 and 249. You can compare them if you happen to own both the smaller 242 and a the larger 236/7.
     

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