Although I'm happy to have this Arc Lantern for the collection, I admit that it is not the best example. It's missing some parts, such as the burner tubes and the internal ventilator "cone", and it has spent some portion of it's life forgotten and exposed to the elements. It has the very common scallop shaped crack in the lower part of the glass globe, the lighting door tab is broken off, and someone has installed a knurled brass nut. The top nut is just a wing nut. The bail handle is missing the wooden grip. All of this is quite correctable, but the kiss of death is that the bottom of the fount is rusted through like the floor wells on an old MGB. Oh well, still pretty to look at...
Or virtually any other steel-bodied car throughout the world that went out of production over 30 years ago. I'm not familiar with the construction of these lanterns, but I would have thought someone here could replace the bottom of the tank...
I think it’s possible to replace the worn out bottom plate of your nice looking lantern. I did that with a French brass table lamp which you can see [url=http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/984 Good luck with your restoration! /Conny
I viewed the pictures on your other post, but could you explain... did you solder over some portion of the original bottom plate, or remove and replace it? How did you deal with the rolled bottom edge of the brass fount? I'm actually a pretty experienced metal worker--but I could not wrap my head around a way to do this that seemed low-risk. David: Did not mean to disparage MGB's--I currently own a '74 that I love--but the roadsters are frequently left out in the elements at some point in their lives, and the floor wells disintegrate with moisture trapped below carpet. Just trying to illustrate that the bottom of the fount is a massive failure, not just a couple of holes...
Steve, Sorry, but I have no further image documentation of this job and it wasn’t a low risk one . Not being a metal worker at all and with minor experience of pressure lamp, I just crossed my fingers and had a go at it, otherwise it would have been a “display only” lamp. I took out the bottom plate by de-solder it with a butane torch. The tricky part here is to give it enough heat to get the bottom out but not too much so the other soldered parts on the fount won’t be damaged. I found a nice and skilled sheet metal worker that made me a new identical bottom plate. When soldering it back in place I hade to widen the edge part around the plate a bit just to close the gap for making it stay in place and for making soldering possible. I used a lot of wire tin/lead solder to be sure it would be air tight. Made a pressure test and it was all good. If you want to test a low risk way that doesn’t damage any other part of the lamp if you fail, you can try this Bre table lamp 1920/30 . In a trial and error attempt I used J-B Weld on the entire bottom plate for not being forced to do they job showed above once again. It worked and after testing it carefully for leakage and several pressure tests, I decided to go ahead with a proper test with fuel. I had the lamp running for hours so I guess it was successful and safe! I hope you come up with an idea how to proceed with you restoration! /Conny
Well if you want a nice old MG restored or for that matter a new base plate I know a guy that does both. I would have a chat with Fred Kuntz in Ohio. We mostly go to Fred for mica but Fred and his partner restore MG sports cars. Craig does the woodwork and Fred is the master metal guy. I have seen the workshop and what they can do and it is truly awesome. Anyway I did consider having this post removed. It pains me to see a lamp I don't have much hope of ever owning. In any condition I want one. I'll repeat that I WANT ONE. ::Neil::
You mean I can get my mica globes, my base plate fixed AND my MGB restored in Ohio? (I live in southern Michigan...) This could be the single most valuable post ever! Will definitely drop Fred a line with my next mica globe order. Thanks!
OK, Neil - with all your US contacts, even you can't get one What chance do the rest of us stand? Does ANYONE in the UK have one..?
Not that I am aware of. Odd really because they are actually not all that rare. I have seen maybe 20 or so and I have also seen at least that many sold on the Bay. They used to make over $2000 but even now still make around $1000. There are some much rarer lamps I have seen sell for under half that. ::Neil::
The fact that this piece has a steel bottom that is wash coated with lead solder on a brass fount presents its own set of "issues". I have silver brazed fount bottom holes closed before. Warren Wright sent me an Arc fount that was pin holed to fix. What I found with that was that once they are rusted on the inside the basic integrity of the metal is shot. When I tried to braze over a pin hole the metal just erupted in sparks like corn being popped. That was the rust blowing off. It also enlarged the hole because the metal was so thin. Plus the lead solder wash hampers silver braze from sticking. Speaking of solder. While attempting the repair you have to keep the rolled edge cool to prevent that solder joint from being disturbed. The only way to "properly" replace the bottom with the same structural integrity as OEM is to unroll that formed edge and remove the bottom. Then have a duplicate fabricated. Placed in the bottom. Re roll that seam and solder seal it. A daunting task for sure. If they only would have used brass for the bottoms. Then the users wouldn't have had to keep the fuel moisture free so that they wouldn't rust out. Catch 22. As for JB Weld I have my own thoughts about using epoxies with the structural forces in play on a pressure vessel. Especially one filled with volatile fuel. I used to be a proponent of crack sealing with US Tank Sealer by POR 15. After learning that the manufacturer never intended or tested it for sealing pressure vessels I stopped that practice. It's good for preventing or stopping further rust from compromising a sound fount with a steel bottom. But that's about it. Good luck on any repair attempt. Bob
Bob, I think your assessment is exactly right. This discussion is giving me some ideas though. What I have now is a lamp only suitable for display, I have nothing to lose unless I mess up the lower rolled edge visually. The bottom is a total failure, but the outside edge of the bottom seems to have a more cosmetic rust while the center is unrepairable. Perhaps the first step is to cut a large concentric circle from the bottom, then I can assess the condition of the soldered rolled edge and the health of the interior. If that looks good, clean off the solder next to where the circle was cut providing a clean edge. Then either tig weld a precisely sized circle flush to the existing bottom (if this alloy of "steel" from a century ago is compatible)--or--lap solder a slightly larger disk to the bottom. Any comments/suggestions?
If you cut out an oval disc, you can make a replacement oval of slightly larger size and softsolder it. It is not possible to insert a larger round disc than what you've cut out, but if it is oval you can 'wiggle' it in (provided it is not to big, you need a bit of 'room' to move ). Hope this is of any help, regards, Wim
Hi steve looks rough does that base i think when you cut to the dotted line you will find severe corrosion on the rest i am afraid. remember your going to put gasoline in this lamp i would replace the whole base to be safe. If you cut to the dotted line then hacksaw to the brass rim say in six place from the centre cut out, then blowlamp in hand warm the brass base rim and knock the remaining bottom out wire brush as much old solder out as you can. You then need to have a circle of steel cut (could replace with brass) with a small edge round have to get this made up i should think, same size as the inner brass rim is now this needs to be the size of the outside dia.of the bottom disc. Then bang it into the lamp base get a screwdriver and bend it like a hook and tease the base inwards does not need to be much Next stick a bar or screwdriver in the filler hole to force the base into the folded base tap the brass to close at one spot and solder it. Next opposite side of base do it again keep doing this till its held in maybe six places Hopefully its in all the way round now so hammer the brass rim to close all way round and solder That is how i would go about this but will take some bottle and a bit of skill good luck pete
There is another problem here. That big hex in the middle is the end of the fuel feed tube. However it is also structural. The feed tube is screwed to a fiting inside the top of the fount and has tha big hex at the base. Under pressure this means the top and bottom of the fount are locked together and there is no resultant force on the base plate. If you are replacing the base then I think you also need to carry that feed tube through the new plate to recreate the original design which is part of the pressure management of the fount. If you don't do this then the new plate has to withstand the thrust without any central support. These are wide founts and the thrust will be 1500 lbs at 30 psi or 1.5 tons. Not a problem when the thrust at the top and bottom are locked and cancelled out by the heavy feed tube but without that the tank is subjected to forces it was never designed for. ::Neil::
I feel that once you "autopsy" this by cutting a hole in the bottom so that you can see the whole inside of that fount bottom, you're going to get a very bad surprise. The degree of rust involvement will be substantial. To the point where you might better just try to find a replacement fount that is sound. With this model that may be next to impossible. Even if you did manage to replace the bottom, would it be SAFE to operate? IMHO you are further ahead just biding your time and having a very nice display only piece. I also believe that Coleman NEVER INTENDED for these founts to be repaired in the manner suggested. That brass is old. Can it withstand the mechanical forces of bending and re rolling without creating another problem with stress cracking from working that seam? You be the judge. Bob
What ever you do with it steve it depends upon the skill and confidence in your ability to restore this lamp and how much you want to make it run again. Many would be happy to own it just as it is and display it where as maybe myself and Neil would have to have a go at fixing it as its part of the enjoyment to collecting this old stuff. pete
Lots of great information here and some prudent cautions. If I do cut into the bottom, even just to see the inside and assess the job ahead, I will be certain to post some photos of what I find.
I don't think it is close allthough the guys who have one will tell you better. I think it is higher walled than a CQ. I suspect the nearest you might get will be a Sunshine Safety lamp base. Mind you at least a CQ tank can probably be adapted to fit and work even if it does look a tad short. ::Neil::
Yeah I think perhaps a CQ base is probably a little more slope-ish on top. Not quite as flat. I do have three CQs, but I haven't seen an ARC in person so I can't really say...
Page 8 of the linked document has exploded parts list for your lantern. http://coleman.pressure-lanterns-il.com/OldDirtyColemanPaper/1930ColemanPartsCatalogNo22.pdf It may help you visualize what's going on inside, and also identify low cost but original replacement parts. I lust after this lamp...
Thanks for the reference--super helpful actually! I have yet to cut into it--all the responses to my post have given me pause--I may actually try to get another one before I attempt any surgery. (though the prices seem to have rebounded quite well as of late...)