Bialaddin T10 with pregnant vapouriser

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by DP2, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. DP2

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    Just obtained a Bialaddin T10 with pregnant vapouriser which the previous owner has tried to remove unsuccessfully, the burner is mangled and only fit for scrap.
    20181017_172512.jpg

    Am I correct in thinking the burner and vapouriser are standard items? If so I have a suitable donor lamp.
     
  2. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    Yes, both items are standard.
     
  3. DP2

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    Thanks Henry, I thought they were, this is my first T10 and I don't have that much info on them.
     
  4. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I'm guessing you should be able to get the old vaporiser out with some cutting and drilling... if you think it's worth it.
     
  5. DP2

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    Don't think it's worth bothering as the vapouriser is going to be knackered.
     
  6. DP2

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    But some surgery will be necessary to release the spirit cup / glass base from the seized assembly.
     
  7. MG

    MG Subscriber

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    Lots of heating and quenching will help, i've successfully removed a couple of seized solid T10 spirit cups from their vapourisers just don't be tempted to hit the base of the spirit cup as it may twist like on my first attempt, i still managed to save it without making it leak though.
     
  8. DP2

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    The spirit cup is not seized, however it is trapped on the vapouriser due to it being seized in the burner spigot.
     
  9. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @DP2

    Hacksaw!

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  10. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    The pricker wire is worth saving even if the point is broken as they can be fettled to fit other lamps.
     
  11. DP2

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    Was thinking more angle grinder!
     
  12. JonD

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    I wish I could understand why these pregnancies happen?
    We all know the "real life" cause of it - but in lamps? I doubt any of the standard reasons....[-X

    It has been discussed for all the types with "stick" vapourisers of one sort or another.
    Preston loop types have their own problems - not to discuss here.

    I reckon too hot at some point on the tube, it softens and bulges.
    Others say carbon build up forces the swelling.

    It's about time we worked it out before all the NOS vapourisers are gone and we need the fast disappearing machinists to make replacements!!

    Please can you 3D print me a 606 Vap.... I live in hope - I will be dead first :doh:
     
  13. DP2

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    My guess is they are overheating and the end of the vapouriser is getting so hot it is getting to a plastic state then expanding in the same way that glass blowers form glass. A lean fuel to air mixture would result in a hot flame.
    You are right about vapourisers the modern ones don't appear to be anywhere as good as the old ones.
     
  14. JonD

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    Yes I agree. I also suspect the gauge of the side wall was reduced at some point as a cost cutting exercise - they were good at those. We will never prove it of course until someone cuts up a sufficient number of different ages.

    I want one of the Korean ones even though they are expensive. I have been saying that for a long time and it's not the money, it's not being sure what i will get. The pictures shown on the listing today are not what has been given good reports a few years ago - again I suspect a cost down exercise though the selling price is not much changed.

    What we need is a reliable source of the one with replaceable nipple as reviewed by @Tony Press
     
  15. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Well there's certainly a higher initial outlay but you should re-coup that over the years with not having to buy replacements from time-to-time. I guess it all boils down to how much you use your lamps. Personally, I use my lamps and lanterns so little these days and I've got so many of them, if the current user goes on the blink, I just pick up another one and start to use that instead. :whistle:

    I haven't bought a vapouriser for years - I've sufficient in stock to last this lifetime and well into the next - but they now seem to be around £30 or so on eBay and the quality is questionable perhaps. So if you got a serviceable-type vapouriser from Korea, you'd save money if you didn't have to replace a conventional type just the once.

    On the question of whether W&B/Bairstow Bros. (1985) Ltd. reduced side-wall thickness, my gut-feeling would be that they didn't. Their main market was to the military where reliability was the prime consideration and cost was secondary to that. I visited the W&B / Bairstow Bros. factory and spoke with the Works Manager and some of the machinists. They were all old-fashioned engineers and there was no sense of penny-pinching at all - the thought never entered my head...
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2018
  16. Tony Press

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    “I also suspect the gauge of the side wall was reduced at some point as [a] cost cutting ...”

    Actually, I doubt it:

    These vapourisers were disposable items (? 200 or 400 hours). Now that they are not common (new), we want them to last forever. They were always disposable items.

    Many different things, individually, or combined, may make them “pregnant”, but they were never made to last forever...

    Tony
     
  17. 1956LD1

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    I had a go at remaking Tilley vaporizers, I was shocked at how thin the vaporizer actually was. I doubt it would be that difficult for someone that has access to a CNC machine to design and make the vaporizer bodies to accept petromax jets and a bit thicker walls in bulk? I myself am only getting into machining so I need more practice before attempting a working model.
     
  18. DP2

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    I have purchased one of the Korean brass vaporisers with replaceable jet and the jury is still out, it works well in my bowl fire but not so well in lamps where it produces a dull light which I suspect is due to over fuelling, going to get some 400/500 cp mantles and give it another try in a lamp when I get chance.
     
  19. DP2

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    Perhaps not intentionally but steel sheet has got increasingly harder to source in British imperial thicknesses, maybe a change to the nearest metric equivalent resulted in a reduction in wall thickness?
     
  20. Tony Press

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    On all-brass vapourisers:

    I have written here before about the fact that all-brass vapourisers get very hot and distort in the Tilley burner set-up.

    Yesterday I looked at one of my Tilley Table Lamps that was fitted with an all-brass vapouriser and saw that the vapouriser had a distinct list and curved to one side. The weight of the gallery and shade probably exacerbates the distortion forces.

    I’ll take a photo later.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  21. Tony Press

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    Heat induced curvature of a brass vapouriser:

    3C9F66F5-2E4C-46C6-B541-6D2B13149640.jpeg

    840A2BC0-DE50-4EF9-ADBF-86038BD652DC.jpeg

    E5F91CCC-CBF2-4035-AC9A-4724DC085518.jpeg

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  22. DP2

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    Looks like it is carryimg quite a lot of unsupported weight on that table lamp, probably best to use the brass vapourisers on lamps where the cage provides support to the burner, hood and glass.
    The issue with my brass vapouriser is that it appears to be slightly overfuelling the lamp, however it works very well in my bowl fire.
     
  23. JonD

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    All good stuff. I missed from my post that my experience is with Tilley so I take on board the point about W&B.
    Perhaps they did use thicker gauge side walls and so this problem happens less frequently with them?

    I don't use my lamps very much but the replacements I have bought lately did not reach anything like 100 hours.
    Maybe not even 24 hours. This is the reason for not wanting to buy any more of them. I found an old X246B with
    a very rusty 606 and did not expect much from it. It worked perfectly!!

    Interesting observation on the Korean ones from @DP2 If it has a replaceable nipple then wouldn't it be interesting to try a smaller one. One seller I was looking at says spares are available but we suppose in just one jet size. It could be as simple as a 0.2mm orifice has been used which would have been better at 0.18mm.

    Thanks to an old post from @Norman these sellers have been mentioned
    kkn4602 - @Tony Press reviewed this one but today what is pictured does not have replaceable parts
    lovelantern2014
    philbeagle
    gksk2146-3 - This one shows replaceable parts and is my current favourite to order.

    Does anyone have experience of the others?
    Did W&B and Tilley both use the same thread on the valve end of things?
    Thanks
     
  24. Norman

    Norman United States Subscriber

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    @JonD

    I was going to try kkn4602 vaporizers but since these aren't serviceable I decided against trying them out. Also these are a direct copy of the Tilley vaporizers. Granted these will most likely last many times longer due to the use of a thick steel tube but still unserviceable.

    I have 2 of the vaporizers made by philbeagle. These have a very thick brass tube which shouldn't warp due the the heat. These are also serviceable. The down side is you have to purchase separately the nipple and pricker. But these vaporizers do work very well indeed.

    The vaporizers I like the best at least for me come from gksk2146-3. These vaporizers come with extra nipples and prickers. I also have 2 of these vaporizers one 5 inch and one 7 inch. Both work very well and the quality is top notch. Also you can dismantle these vaporizers to service them. As for price these are less expensive then any of the others sold on the bay and granted these aren't cheap but these are well worth it because these vaporizers will last a lifetime.

    I did check out lovelantern2014 and at this time there are no Tilley or Bialaddin/Vapalux vaporizers offered.

    One of the main requirements I wanted was serviceability and also great quality. I also looked at the price so for me this is a no brainer. With gksk2146-3 you will get more bang for your buck.
    All of the 4 sellers offer great quality so the choice is yours to make.

    Cheers,
    Norman
     
  25. Tony Press

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    1. I have had an all-brass vapouriser seize in a Tilley X246 spigot after only a few lightings. It had distorted, but had no carbon build up. I put this down to the high temperatures endured by the vapouriser and spigot being enclosed by the mantle.

    2. Except for the recent “blind” Tilley vapouriser (no jet), and one I had to grind a bad weld off one side, I have had no problems running my Tilleys with them: no “pregnancies”; no black mantle disease; no burning outside the mantle.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  26. JonD

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    @Norman @Tony Press, many thanks for the comments.
    I was thinking that all round gksk2146-3 looked best for me.
     
  27. TommiL

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    Hi,

    I've experienced the same with my Bialaddin 300X. In my case this happened twice in a row with the same lantern, thus I believe the problem being - as suggested above - too lean fuel to air mix instead of "high mileage" with the vapouriser. I had two 300Xs lit and on side by side, and the one becoming pregnant had the spigot glowing bright red after shut down.
     
  28. JonD

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    It is all very interesting.

    If anything is "red hot" then it is becoming softened and it could bulge to become pregnant.
    I am quite surprised it gets hot enough to do that.

    My theories run like this...(and fuel mixture plays a part - I just don't know what it is yet...)

    Vapouriser, if made from thin tubing - cannot conduct much heat down the stem.
    It might not have good contact with the upper flange to burner - so it cannot send heat up that way.
    Assuming that is not also red hot. Burner temp depends on the mixture settings - all interact.

    Conclusion - vapouriser top end temperature is the trouble.

    Whether it is softened by temperature, or the fuel cracks to make carbon which expands - what matters?
    It only has to run hot enough to make the vapour required for running.

    Some say the larger replacement burners are good - they will run cooler?
    I think thicker vapouriser tubes will also help to conduct heat down. Until it hits the washer on the
    control cock - yet another heat barrier.
     

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