"blow torch" pre-heaters????????

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by F. bruce kuda, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    in the last week I have seen two examples of preheaters that were like little blow torches built in to the lantern-- I have never seen this before~~~~Is any one familiar with this kind of pre-heater??and if so can you give me some info on them, and I'm wondering if they run off vapor fumes in the font, or if they use raw fuel? I have project and very much want to put this type of preheater on it. It will be kero fueled ~~~~ thanks, one example I saw was Coleman 238 B the other was an old old Gloria
     
  2. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,097
    Location:
    Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
    Bruce

    Are you referring to the kind of pre-heater seen on Petromax “Rapid” lanterns like this?:

    1939 Petromax 827 Rapid

    There’s lots of information here about this system, and you could restrict your searches to Petromax Rapid.

    I’m curious about the Gloria. I’ve only ever seen Gloria preheaters that rely on vapour, not atomised fuel.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  3. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
  4. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    your neighbor Mick Peters just got a Gloria--
     
  5. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,097
    Location:
    Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
    Burton?
     
  6. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    712
    Location:
    Lancashire, UK
    @F. bruce kuda You might find my strip-down of a pre-heater HERE of interest. Fuel (kero) is drawn from the tank and is atomised by the pre-heater.
     
  7. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,149
    Location:
    North Yorkshire
    These rapid preheaters come in different styles but the principal is the same on all of them. They are available here but you'd have to make your own tank fitting for it to screw into. PreHeater Complete-Part#226-500CP XL
     
  8. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    @presscall thank you --EXCELLENT just what I needed to know
     
  9. MYN

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,222
    Location:
    Malaysia
    The Coleman 238B and the Petromax 827 would have rapid preheaters of similar mechanisms. I only have the 238B.
    The Coleman would have a roundish knob.
    The discharge would be an atomized kerosene and air mixture. That's similar to the Petromax type rapid preheaters.
    Kind of harsh on the mantles of a pressure lantern. Nevertheless, it'd very likely be a great addition to any pressurized liquid-fueled stove with some modifications.
     
  10. MYN

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,222
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Here's the patent for the atomizing preheter torch similar to those on a Coleman 238B:-
     

    Attached Files:

  11. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,574
    @F. bruce kuda , if you take a look here PETROMAX DATIERUNG you find some German patents about the rapid pre heater (blow torch).
    The patent numbers are ok but the links however won't work since the patent offices change the search definition regular. So I can't keep a valid link up.
     
  12. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    @MYN thank you for that info---- I am thinking of putting a shield to disburse the flame before it hits the mantles-- I have a project going and would love to have a heater like this--not so much because it is efficient, but because its so dramatic !
     
  13. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    @WimVe thank you for the info- I appreciate your help on this project
     
  14. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,574
    Well the idea is, as far as I undertand it, that the flame of the thrower doesn't heat the mantle but the vaporiser or generator.
    In fact I always start new mantles with the spirit cup. Because the heat of the flamethrower hardens one side of the mantle before the gas flow gives it the right shape. Even if you point the flame as much as possible to the vaporiser.

    The heat and flame front/shape of the burner flame forms the mantle shape the first time.
     
  15. MYN

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,222
    Location:
    Malaysia
    @F. bruce kuda
    You're welcomed. The flame front normally doesn't hit the mantles directly as, had been mentioned by @WimVe, but instead, directed more towards the generator. While it'd roar loudly with the turbulence of a blow torch, I seldom, if ever, gotten any damaged mantles from that.
    Perhaps the concern was due to observations by many, that:- the flow of the fast-expanding air around the flame causes enough perturbation and the mantles seem to appear wriggling during the light ups. Well, that combined with the dramatic sound effects of course :lol:.
    You might not need the heat shield at all.
     
  16. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    712
    Location:
    Lancashire, UK
  17. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
  18. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    just found out I can buy petromax replacement heaters--that's what I'm going to use-- save my self hours of engineering! LOL KISS ( K eep I t S imple S tupid)
     
  19. MYN

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,222
    Location:
    Malaysia
    The Petromax rapid preheater torch uses atomized kero and air in operation. Just like the one on a Coleman, Primus, Butterfly, Anchor, etc.
    If you want something that gives a more silent preheat, perhaps the Gloria. If I'm not wrong, that should be using 'Shellite' vapour instead of atomized kero.
    But then it'd be less dramatic.
     
  20. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    @MYN a big part of this 316 Magnum I am going to be offering is the drama--the look of the lantern is going to be breath taking in all brass. Size wise a little bigger that the original 316L by Coleman, and it will run two generators and 4 mantles ~~~~ a monster among lanterns !
     
  21. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    712
    Location:
    Lancashire, UK
  22. MYN

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    2,222
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Wow! Bruce.
    That's gonna be at least 1000cp?
    Two generators was what I had imagined too.
     
  23. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    @presscall just got my prototype font back from my powder coater-- came out pretty nice !

    316mfontbrass.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2022 at 4:53 PM
  24. F. bruce kuda United States

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2021
    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    burlington wisconsin USA
    @MYN , yep! the blow torch will preheat one of the generators--then the burn from that one will preheat the second-- there will be a valve for each generator~~~ this thing should be a real flame thrower for brightness
     
  25. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    712
    Location:
    Lancashire, UK
    It certainly did!
     

Share This Page