Chinese mantles on a Coleman 285 (#21 alternative)

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Fireexit1, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I ordered these from a seller on Ebay - advertised as 8x6cm. At £3.17 all in for 10 I thought worth a try:
    The pictures tell the story. Short strings meant fiddly but not impossible to put on. I tried them on a 285 and a 288. I could have done better on the 288 but it works. They seem to end up slightly larger than the genuine Coleman #21. I have lit the 285 4 times with no apparent damage. Compared to the £8.00 per 4 that genuine spares seem to be sold for I am happy.

    1.jpg tied.jpg
    burn.jpg
    lit.jpg
    clothes on.jpg
    tied 2.jpg
    clothes on 2.jpg
     
  2. Sellig33

    Sellig33 France Subscriber

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    Hi @Fireexit1 ,
    Be careful, they are more fragile than originals. But considering the price ....
     
  3. LatMag49

    LatMag49 Germany Subscriber

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    If you manage to tie them on they are not bad.
    But the strings are totally scrap, too short, slippery
    and split, which makes tying extremely fiddly,
    But the price is seducing, thar's how Chinese trading
    works. I won't buy again:(

    Matthias
     
  4. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    .

    Same here.
     
  5. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    After 10 re-lights the mantles on the 285 are still going well. Good light and I think easier to light. However the fiddly nature (and my fat fingers) led to one mantle on the 288 dropping off, after some disconcerting whistling noises...
    dropping.jpg
    dropped.jpg
     
  6. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I have used fuse wire to secure mantles, it has to be reasonably thick to take the heat though.
     
  7. MYN

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    Get someone with slender fingers to tie them. Someone who's used to needle and thread works.
    I've tried some of the green ones. From my experience so far, they actually glowed brighter or at least whiter than the Coleman #21.
     
  8. Sellig33

    Sellig33 France Subscriber

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    The freezer bag links work very well too, just need to recover the steel wire !
     
  9. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    In the absense of any labour source with smaller fingers I will try wire next. I have a roll of something similar to freezer bag ties for garden use. The covering strips off easily.
    The mantle that dropped off was surprisingly "springy" and had shown no signs of damage. Notwithstanding the short string which can fray the actual mantles seem good so far...
     
  10. MYN

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    Once the mantle has been burnt-in, the tie-strings actually serve very little, if any, purpose. The upper part of the mantle would have already shrunk around the 'neck' of the burner cap and that is usually sufficient to hold it in place.
    Anyway, if anyone would like to use a piece of wire in place of the tie-string, I'd suggest ni-chrome wire, which is pretty heat-resistant and malleable enough as an initial wrap. They're used as heating elements for toasters and heaters. They are not too difficult to obtain although not exactly available everywhere.
    As for myself, I'd just use a piece of asbestos string if necessary. This is of course not the obvious choice for those concerned about the potential dangers.
     
  11. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I've used freezer bag ties with adapted Butterfly mantles and they work perfectly.
     
  12. Alby

    Alby Subscriber

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    I have a few 10 packs of these ... now just forget about the crappy fiddly tie strings that the Chinee put on them ... just wip it out in a flash... now a large size darning needle with.... this wire ... 5/10/15 amp fuse wire , threaded through the eye of the needle ... sew it on the margin and though the mantle weave .. around the circumference of the mantle edges ( double over if you like )hey ho ..presto ... you can cut it to length ( scissors) , hold and tie it .... Works ticekty boo and the cotton mantle fabic holds up as well. I have down a few Tilleys ... others... with this method :thumbup: :D/
     
  13. Sellig33

    Sellig33 France Subscriber

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    Freezer bag ties works perfectly !!
    I use it on my all lamps
     
  14. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Some great tips there...:thumbup:

    I think I will have to try the darning needle trick at some point though...:-k

    That reminds me of an old table lamp I found that used old gas lamp mantles ; they were held on with copper wire.
     
  15. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    So the mantles on the 288 have failed after about 35 hours. The check valve on the 285 died taking it out of the testing.
    As you can see on photo no2, one got thin on the sidewall, and the bottom blew out of another. Luckily my Yttrium 2C-HG Peerless mantles have arrived from New Zealand so I can try them next.

    mantle1.jpg mantle2.jpg
     
  16. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Eruuuuwwww! I've never need mantles go like that!
     
  17. MYN

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    Not a real problem except for the task of tying them on. Afterall,
     
  18. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I agree in terms of the price/convenience trade-off. If a catastrophically burst or holed mantle results in a cracked globe they cease to be a bargain.

    True, a quality mantle can develop a hole - many firings on hopefully - but ones I’ve had that have done so haven’t failed with such a gaping hole as that.

    Still, they didn’t wreck the globe on that occasion I suppose.
     
  19. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    No globes were harmed in this production :lol: but some heatshields were 'tested' !
    Anyway it was all a bit of fun. I think that the old maxim "you get what you pay for" maybe is also proven.
     
  20. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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    :lol:
     
  21. Johnny19

    Johnny19 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    These Mantles don't last, I got 2 sent with the Westernfield lamp. They also ghostflame (not sure if thats the expression!).
    If You shop around on Ebay You can get offers on decent Coleman 21Mantles........
     
  22. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I am now using them for testing rebuilds as they owe me little. I went down that road as the Coleman ones were failing quickly as well. Now using Peerless 2C-HG. So far so good...
     
  23. phaedrus42

    phaedrus42 Subscriber

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    Not sure I would use those words together any more. I've had fairly good results with the green-topped chinese mantles. I tie off the bottoms on the inside, about 10-15mm shorter and trim the excess for a fair approximation of a #21. This also prevents the bottom blowing out. The strings on these are quite long and the cut off ends can be used to tie off the next set.
     
  24. george United States

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    Good for testing on rebuilt lamp/lantern but not much else...
     
  25. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    As far as I know.... (and I don't know much!) all mantles are now made in either China or India, regardless of the stated manufacturer on the packet. The only thing that changes is the level of quality control that happens at the point of production. There may also be a difference in quality depending on the market being supplied. I say this because Norman has had a pretty reasonable success with Chinese 'pink top' sock type mantles whereas the green top variety always give him trouble. For me it's the exact opposite - green tops I find very good, pink are awful!

    Over the last few years I have built up a stock of hundreds of mantles from many different sources and makers. I use Anchor ball types on Tilleys and Willis and Bates, green sock types on Petromax and clones and the same on Coleman lanterns and I have a failure rate of maybe 1 in 20 overall so I'm not overly worried.

    Also, and this is going to be HUGELY controversial, I stopped believing in the old mantra "you get what you pay for" a long time ago. It may have been true years ago but that era is now long gone in my opinion. Manufacturers charge what they can get away with. I've spoken to a few commercial buyers about this and their view can be summarised as: "We'll charge the highest price we can get away with before market share begins to dip." and I can tell you, quality isn't a consideration any more. Market penetration, unit supply cost and price band coverage... these are what matters and the devil with everything else. Sorry to be cynical, but quality products are very very rare these days and hard to track down!
     
  26. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @ColinG I think you are right re: quality/price. And in a limited market with little competition, market share is easer to maintain.
    Chris
     
  27. bp4willi

    bp4willi Germany Subscriber

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    A while ago, i ordered 20 green mantles for 3,75€ . These turned out to be Butterfly 4D mantles. Long u shape, very bright, but not very durable . Swapped 4 or 5 meanwhile.
    But the brightness is stunning.

    Thus , i ordered now 50 green mantles for 11,33 €. Curious what will arrive....
     
  28. Johnny19

    Johnny19 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @phaedrus42 Never had a problem with Coleman Mantles, like they say, everyone has different ways of doing things. It's an interesting hobby!
     
  29. MYN

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    On Butterfly mantles, I've been using and don't have much issues with the following:
    20180426_180816.jpg
    Note: they are totally different makes. The one on the left is what I believe original and radioactive. The one on the right is non-radioactive and runs slightly yellower than the original.
    The Butterfly logos(bottom left and right of their packaging) are different.
    Both Made in China.
    Both are somewhat stronger than the usual green or pink tops.
     

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