Coleman 201 Kero Mantle halo

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Jandre, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Jandre South Africa

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    Good day every one.

    I Have recently obtained 2 Coleman 201 kerosene lanterns.

    After restoring and playing with them a few times i noticed that the one lantern has a halo of flame burning outside the mantle. The the lantern does not do the following:

    No Blackening the mantle
    Not Burning dim
    Not smelling bad.

    Note: burner screen was replaced by me with a stainless steel mesh matching the same hole spacing as the original. The burner I got never had one in so i had to make a plan. Both lanterns has the same mantles on

    The halo around the mantle seems to me a bit too big for comfort. So i did the flowing tests on the two lanterns by swapping some parts around...

    Swapped the generator tips.... No change (Halo is still present on the same lantern.)

    Swapped the whole generator...No change (Halo is still present on the same lantern.)

    Swapped the burner frame...Change! (Halo seems to be occurring on the same burner frame)

    Inspected and cleaned out the air tube and removed the aluminium collar to ensure no airflow blockage...No change (Halo is still present.)

    Inspected the u tube and venturi tubes...No change (All clean no obstructions.)

    Played around by extending and retracting the burner tube with the lock nut...No change (halo is still present.)

    Inspected the burner screen No change...(replaced beforehand with stainless steel mesh with the same hole spacing as the original, the burner came without a mesh so I had to make my own.)

    Any ideas? originally the one lantern was complete and the second one i have build up from spares.
    Is there any chance that the Venturi or burner frame could be from a 200a lantern and this is screwing with my airflow to the mantle?
     
  2. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Welcome aboard!:thumbup:

    You may have to much pressure in the tank and if you let the lantern run for an hour or so then the halo may reduce or disappear, do let us know how you get on.
     
  3. Jandre South Africa

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    Thank you for the response.

    I will Run the lantern for a while and see what happens. It did occur to me that it might still be some impurities in the new burner mesh i have installed although it has been lit a few times but not for long periods.

    Regarding the amount of pump strokes and pressure...

    Soft start
    Lantern "A" takes 35 pumps as instructed and burns perfectly...
    Lantern "B" the flaming one.. Takes about 10 pumps to be fully lit (halo starts around pump stroke 8) and just as hurting to the eyes as lantern "A"... Reason why I thought the Generator tip might be to big as it seems to be letting out more vapor. But with swapping the complete burner frame "B" with Burner Frame "A"....B still has the problem. this should rule out the generators and gas tips.

    What I'm thinking of trying is...

    1.Run it for a while to see if it might be the mesh still burning in.
    2.Swap the 2 burners including their mantles.
    3.Get a original replacement burner cap (if it turns out to be one of the above)
    4. I did notice my venturi tube has a slight dent on the gas jet side(large opening of the cone.) This is very small and does not seem to have deformed the cone shape. There is a chance it could be, so I will try and gently smooth it out.
    5.Try and machine a reducer choke (press fit) on the small end of the venturi to try and get more suction from the air tube

    One of thees has to be the solution.

    i will take some pictures tonight while i fiddle with this stubborn Bug in my system:-k
     
  4. Pancholoco1911 United States

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    Any gas/air (mix) leaks from the Venturi pipe? 200’s sometimes smell because they leak fuel mixture from there, had one 200a they as a big smelly and I used a dab of muffler paste and the smell was gone.

    Let us know if you get this issue resolved.

    Pancho
     
  5. Jandre South Africa

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    Thank you for the reply.

    Yes i also use some sealant on my u tube and Venturi. Especially on the kerro models that love to stink:).

    So messed with the 2 lanterns again yesterday evening. but with no luck so far.

    after a lot of swapping parts I retract my previous statement. it appears that the halo does not entirely stick to the same burner frame. the halo is present on lantern B only now:-s:?: even with swapping frames.

    Lantern "B" had a bad generator that had a broken off rusty needle that I removed and fixed with a new needle. I'm starting to suspect it could have been damaged by the removal of the tip. also interesting there is no stamp on that gas tip:-s:?:. the working Lantern "A" has a No. 3 stamped on the tip.

    The mantles I use are Alva 100 Cp double tie mantles with bottom end tied off. very bright light output.
    I know its not the correct mantles but Lantern "A" has the same mantle and I have no Halo on it at all.

    Conclusion.

    Buy a new Burner cap and generator for Lantern "B"

    Anyway... here is some pics.

    20201015_172929.jpg
    Dent in venturi.

    20201015_173328.jpg
    Cleaning and re shaping Venturi in lathe.

    20201015_174818.jpg
    Fixed dent.

    20201015_174626.jpg
    Air tube. bit rusty but no blockage.

    20201015_174725.jpg
    Air tube. bit rusty but no blockage.

    20201015_180913.jpg
    Before Swapping parts (left - Good lantern "A" Right - bad lantern "B").

    20201015_181342.jpg
    Swapped burner frames and pre-heating.

    20201015_180357.jpg
    Visable halo around mantle of Lantern "B"

    20201015_185010.jpg
    Mesh to fix burner. "My flower strainer" (Supposed to be Stainless steel ](*,)) mesh To the right that doesn't work and burns through after a tank of kerro. To the left steel gas heater mesh that is thinker and hopefully lasts longer that i have now put in.

    20201006_195727.jpg
    Bonus pic... Lantern "A" burning very nice:D/
     
  6. Pancholoco1911 United States

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    I believe number 3 gas tip is TK66 and new 201 gens are TD, spring for tk66 is brass and new production generator for 201 spring is aluminum
     
  7. Jandre South Africa

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    Interesting.

    I do recall that I have both types of springs one is Brass and the other is aluminium.

    I might be picking up a spare glass today for the one lantern that doesn't have one yet and a new burner cap.
    I will find out from the guy I'm getting parts from if he has a spare generator for sale too.:-k

    Any thoughts on ruining the lantern with the halo for the meanwhile? I'm scared of the glass taking more stress than it should?:-k
     
  8. Pancholoco1911 United States

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    No, haven’t run a lantern with a halo burn yet and no because I could ruin the lantern is because I hate to see a halo around any mantle; try a bigger mantle and let us know.
     
  9. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    Just reiterating, the times that I’ve had the dreaded halo around the mantle, I have found the cause to be a worn jet ..... Just my two pennith worth.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  10. Pancholoco1911 United States

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    @AussiePete he posted this

    “Swapped the whole generator...No change (Halo is still present on the same lantern.)”

    He does states that no air restrictions are present in the air tube
     
  11. Jandre South Africa

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    The first round I tested it seemed to have no effect by changing generators. after yesterday's play around I'm also starting to suspect it to be a warn jet. The jet in there was Saved from old scrap parts and might have been the wrong jet from the start(no markings on the gas tip) or damaged when I removed the broken rusty needle from it. The symptoms are there to be worn jet with too much vapour. i just cant understand by swapping them one lantern seems to not have a problem with it as much as the other. so its hard to tell.

    What i will do is do the following...

    1.Replace burner cap...Just in case it contributes to the problem.

    2.Try and get another 201 generator (could be that both generators are not too well and screwing with my testing results).
    I always seem to kinda get the same results buy swapping parts...but always a little different every time.](*,)I think a good place to start is to completely eliminate the 2 generators I have in the lanterns and try to get another one for testing again.

    3.Try a bigger mantle 300 Cp

    4. If none of thees work... sit in the corner and cry a little bit:shock:

    I will keep you posted. Hopefully this afternoon picking up glass, burner cap and possible generator.
    I will post pictures of the two current gas tips i have.
     
  12. phaedrus42

    phaedrus42 Subscriber

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    You can try brushing out the air tube thoroughly with a brass or copper rifle brush.
    Also check that the little cover on the collar is not restricting the air intake.
    Another thing to consider is how far the gas tip end of the generator protrudes into the air tube as a slightly bent burner frame will change that significantly.
    Fount pressure and mantle type also have an effect on the halo.
     
  13. Jandre South Africa

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    Thank you for the reply.

    So far I have yet to get my replacement parts (glass ,burner cap and generator).
    But I will almost bet my life that its like Pete said. worn jet... or something fishy with the Venturi

    Here is a few more notes:

    1. I did check the length of both the generators I have... they are exactly the same from top to bottom including the gas tip.

    2. With the eye I checked down the venturi tube while the generator was installed, and they match up very well.

    3. With the lantern running and the frame nut loose. I played around with the burner frame assembly, there is one spot that looks like it wants so burn with a smaller halo but it is with almost the whole generator pulled out. Note that this helped but there was still some halo.

    4. The burner tube and cap are definitely being damaged by heat as they "flake" off and I can see some green Flames.

    5. After the lantern shuts down, the u tube is not read hot so I know its not burning inside the tube. (more proof of too little air in the system)

    6. I made a small press fit choke or "reducer" that I pressed into the small side of the venturi to see if I can get it to suck more air... you wont believe this made no difference... it didn't burn any better or any worse :shock: :-s ](*,)

    7. with no mantle on and briefly lighting the burner, I got this flame...
    A. The flame is about 2 inches long(touches the burner frame nut)
    B. Very bright blue at the mesh with a sharp needle point _/\_ in the middle of the burner.
    C. Very dim see through blue in the middle
    D. Slight orange tint around the bottom and sides of the flame

    8. I did pick up some other mantles today. I will give them a try (pic below).

    Thank you so far for every one's help. At this stage I put down the lantern as I cant struggle with it any more. Let me see if I can get a new generator for it. The guy I get my parts from warned me in the beginning and told me the bunch of spares I had might not work any more and I should rather get another already build up lantern from him that is working. the reality is that the glass I paid for plus a new generator and burner cap will cost me about the same as what he is asking for the restored working lantern.

    20201018_093822.jpg Machining the choke to press into the venturi. No luck so I didn't even take a picture of it installed.

    20201020_123852.jpg
    New mantles to try... they say its the same as the 21a Coleman mantles that fits 201 [-o<[-o<[-o<[-o<
     
  14. jacov

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    Hi Jandre, the above mantles in my experience burns with a slight yellowish light, not the best I have seen.... My 201 works quite well with the 200-350 CP butterfly mantles.

    I still think your jet is worn

    Rgds

    Jaco
     
  15. Jandre South Africa

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    Some good news....:D/:D/

    So today I'm finally getting my new glass , burner cap and generator.

    Also. Was playing around yesterday and I think I confirmed the problem to be a worn jet.

    I decided to take a chance and "Re-size" the older one of the two gas tips.

    I made a flat bottomed punch out of a piece of brazing rod and I used it to hammer all around the tiny hole. I continued to gently do this until the pricker rod didn't fit any more. Once it was slightly smaller than the pricker needle I gently screwed the gas tip back on the generator with the pricker needle in the up position. It poked the hole open to the same size as the pricker needle witch I measured to be the correct size for the 201 jet (0.006 inch)

    So now I have a lantern with no more halo around the mantle with a bright light. By miracle I managed to take an old gas jet (that I'm sure I screwed up with my home made pricker needle) and fix it.

    The gas jet is now such a perfect fit for the pricker needle that when you turn the pricking rod to slow, the lamp will extinguish. a good sign:D/:D/:D/:D/:D/

    I have no idea how long this fix will last for... but it will be put to the test:lol::lol:

    Here are some pics.

    20201021_224036.jpg
    Homemade punch out of brazing rod. The diameter of the punch is about half of the pocket of the jet to leave me with a lot of room to hit the jet all around the hole. I used a small hammer and tapped it very lightly and I constantly checked the jet with the pricker needle.

    20201021_224217.jpg
    getting ready to hammer. Note the soft jaws of the vice not to damage the thread or sealing surface of the jet.
     
  16. ROBBO55

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    Congratulations @Jandre for getting it going. :thumbup:
    When everything is clean with no leaks, a halo is usually caused by an enlarged jet. The work you did on these two has been a good learning exercise :lol:
     
  17. Jandre South Africa

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    Thank you all for the help and suggestions:content::content:.

    Glass, generator and burner cap fitted. Tested and running good now:D/

    Indeed I did learn a lot.

    20201022_214046.jpg
     
  18. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Sequence suggests you’ve downsized the jet to accommodate the fuel/air mixing peculiarities of that particular burner frame. Subsequent efforts to increase the air delivery didn’t work so a jet that wasn’t in fact oversized had the jet orifice peened down to undersized, reducing the usual jet pricker clearance to just enough.

    Interesting conundrum.

    John
     

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