Fabricated Tilley R1 mantle

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Graham-Melbourne, May 29, 2020.

  1. Graham-Melbourne

    Graham-Melbourne Australia Subscriber

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    Finished my first try at fabricating a stainless steel mantle for my Tilley R1 radiator.

    The design came from a previous post on this forum. Thank you!

    Top & bottom are 40mm welsh plugs with holes machined in them on a lathe. I scavenged the SS mesh from an un-needed SS "globe" from a modern era Coleman. I had the SS mesh so total cost was A$13 for the welsh plugs. (Would have preferred 45mm welsh plugs but could not find any.)

    Will try for the money shot tomorrow...

    20200529_144531.jpg

    20200529_163328.jpg
     
  2. Sedgman

    Sedgman Subscriber

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    :thumbup: Looks very promising. Good luck.
     
  3. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    Looks like it could work there @Graham-Melbourne
    Good luck mate, I’m looking forward to the money shot.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  4. Buggerlugs

    Buggerlugs Australia Subscriber

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    I can't wait to see how see goes.
     
  5. ROBBO55

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  6. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    That should do the job!:thumbup:
     
  7. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Nice work, @Graham-Melbourne. :thumbup:

    TW Sands in Melbourne, Australia has this variation:

    Tilley R1 or equivalent mantle

    My Kayen radiator has a long spigot and a similar setup, but the top and bottom plates have a ring of holes.
    A886DFF4-48BC-45E2-BCD9-5DCD26A833DF.jpeg

    And out in my shed, I have a box of spares that has similar heater mantles. They were Jim Dick’s mantles.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  8. Graham-Melbourne

    Graham-Melbourne Australia Subscriber

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    It does work but some flame is "escaping" the mantle as you can see my photo below.
    Is this normal? Or perhaps caused by a lack of holes in bottom and/or top of the mantle?

    Screenshot_20200530-112915_Photos.jpg
     
  9. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Graham-Melbourne

    Try putting a couple of holes in the top and bottom plates.

    My Kayen burner has 12 holes top and bottom, but you might get away with fewer.

    D03D4C77-6635-4771-A88B-AC91B40E306E.jpeg


    Tony
     
  10. Graham-Melbourne

    Graham-Melbourne Australia Subscriber

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    Drilled 2 x 5mm holes in the bottom and no more escaping flame.

    Don't think it is burning quite as hot however and the mantle glow is a bit blotchy.

    Next week will get another welsh plug and try 2 x 2mm holes then perhaps 4 x 2 mm holes.

    20200530_135931.jpg
     
  11. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    Looking good so far. The holes did the trick, experimenting time now.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  12. Kiwi

    Kiwi Subscriber

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    Excellent solution for a missing mantle, thank you for posting. I will have a play with the idea myself as I have a mantleless Tilley heater.
     
  13. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Yes, the original spherical Tilley mantles had two holes about 3mm diameter towards the lower end.

    I see what you've done with the Welch plugs and I'm wondering if you've too much plug and not enough mantle showing on the vertical sides - if you know what I mean. I don't know how you'd do it with the sides of the Welch plugs, cutting them down, but maybe more of the mantle needs to 'show' giving greater heat output and possibly better burning.

    I helped another member with a design of these end plates for a Tilley radiator based on the Bialaddin bowlfire design. If I recall correctly, they don't have a top plate at all and the top of the mantle cylinder just sits nicely against the lower tapered part of the burner - as the Tilley originals did - so you probably don't need that, which saves half the job! The bottom Bialaddin plate has 10 holes in it with very little 'upstand', maybe 3mm or so - just enough to locate the mantle in the right place.

    It's a bit early here at the moment but I'll have a cup of coffee and see if I can dig one out...
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  14. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    OK, here we go.

    First, the Tilley design:-
    Tilley R1 burner and mantle.jpg
    Two things to note here:-
    1. The mantle is a reproduction made in, I think, India. Clearly it's not a very good fit as I've just noticed this morning - I'd have been taking it back but the collector I got it (actually, them) from has since died. However, I'm almost certain it would still burn successfully. It has two small (3mm-ish) holes in the underside to allow exhaust gases to escape - probably the mesh size places some restriction on gas-flow.
    2. The original, unburned Tilley part also has a manufacturing defect - the bottom burner plate is at an angle. Never mind, onward.

    The relevant Bialaddin parts:-
    Tilley R1 Bialaddin design.jpg
    The mantle is 55mm tall and 35mm in diameter. The lower burner plate (there is no upper plate nor any need for one) is 40mm wide with a 3mm upstand. The central hole is 15mm diameter and the 10 smaller holes are 6mm diameter - all dimensions approximate.

    Here's how the two designs sit together:-
    Tilley R1 Bialaddin hybrid.jpg
    You could probably reduce the diameter of the mantle slightly so that it sits nicely at the top of the burner cone just under the lip. Maybe you could reduce the mantle diameter to the bottom of the burner plate but then you'd have to re-design the lower plate accordingly. I suppose if you wanted to continue with the upper burner plate idea, you could make it to sit right at the bottom of the burner cone. That way, you'd save on stainless steel mesh but have to buy another Welch plug and drill it to suit the Tilley diameter. I daresay you can experiment with the design and dimensions to a greater or lesser extent but as a general rule, I'd have thought the bigger the area of red-hot mesh, the higher the heat output would be.

    Whatever, this is what Ray and I did and it worked well enough for us and meant we could use the standard Bialaddin mantles, although these aren't that easy to get either. However, a replacement cylindrical mantle is far easier to replicate than a spherical one. Over to you...
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  15. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Bialaddin mantle:

    4D4BE8A4-506C-428B-A71F-E02A2CD41B3A.jpeg

    Various top and bottom plates for Tilley/Kayen mantles from Jim Dick’s spares. Bottom plates left, top plates right. Original used fittings at top.
    FAC7D330-C15F-49C8-A5C0-68A062B0C3B0.jpeg

    One of Jim’s unused mantles, probably TW Sands.
    966AD7D3-F143-4EEF-8428-B6812658BFE3.jpeg

    9083F4F1-3947-43A8-AA65-D80666EEB4E3.jpeg


    Cheers

    Tony
     
  16. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Thanks Tony - for the sake of completeness, I'd taken a photograph of the original (much better IMHO) Bialaddin arrangement and you've just saved me the job of posting it - cheers! :D
     
  17. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @David Shouksmith

    No worries... I was writing my post when you posted yours.

    We’ve got a Bialaddin and a Kayen going in the house now, and it’s a clear night, so I’ll probably light the pig heater as well. And I’m working on an R42 that has a rusted tank...

    Sorry I missed your face on Zoom...

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  18. Graham-Melbourne

    Graham-Melbourne Australia Subscriber

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    The top cup makes it easier to fabricate as the mesh resists being rolled up & wants to spring open. (But loses all spring once it is heated.)

    But if you only need the bottom cup it could easily be made with just a drill, no lathe required.

    Also thought the welsh plugs are a little deep. Could probably grind it down a little. Will give it a go.
     
  19. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Graham-Melbourne

    The trick with the mesh, but a bastard to make, is two folds, one at each end of the strip. They lock together, and are crimped.

    A jig helps.

    Tony
     
  20. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    :-k Now you're just being silly! How can hopping about from foot to foot possibly make it easier to fabricate a mantle..? :-s :?
     
  21. Ian Bingham

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    I reckon the two holes in the Tilley Mantle and the holes in Bialaddin plate are principally to allow the pre-heater flame to reach the burner holes on lighting-up.
     
  22. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Yes, that would make absolute sense given the way the gauze in a miners lamp works... :thumbup:
     
  23. Tony Press

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    Correction!

    I reversed the order of the top and bottom plates in my photo above.

    This is correct: Top plates left: bottom
    plates right.
    0AEB165A-A99F-41FC-9E29-6D9E79244CF3.jpeg

    Bialaddin running.
    9E6C917D-E939-4D9A-89C7-E75DF7199B52.jpeg

    Kayen.
    0ED02968-5B67-4950-A07C-04B7DF86FE9C.jpeg

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  24. MozzoSA

    MozzoSA Australia Subscriber

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  25. Buggerlugs

    Buggerlugs Australia Subscriber

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    Wow looking great
     

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