Flaming Tilley

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Mollbhan, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Mollbhan

    Mollbhan United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Highland
    Hi all, new guy on the forum here, bit of a primus stove nut but relatively new to Tilleys although I have vivid childhood memories of them being brought up in a part of the highlands where electricity did not reach till 1969.
    I fell heir to a pork pie type Tilley dating from the 1940s but have little success with it, I completely cleaned it, fitted new washers throughout and fitted a new 606 vapouriser tube, despite being properly pre-heated with the cock valve open the mantle does not glow but simply flames, flames emerging from the top of the lamp, partially closing the valve stops the flaming and the mantle becomes partially incandescent but the light output is poor. I have fitted a different burner unit from another Tilley with the same result so, not the mantle.
    Anybody got any ideas?
    Thanks Mollbhan.
     
  2. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Shetland Islands UK..
  3. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    6,406
    Location:
    North-East England
    Where did you get the new vapouriser? As Jeff says, it sounds like the jet is too large, which wouldn't particularly surprise me if the new 606 came from Tilley. They've outsourced production to China and we've heard of quality control issues - large jet, no jet, oval jet and even two jets... ](*,)
     
  4. KAB

    KAB Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    South East England
    Welcome to the forum. It may be that the burner is not quite hot enough from the first pre-heat and may need the wick extinguisher and refilling for a second go, especially if your outside.
     
  5. Mollbhan

    Mollbhan United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Highland
    Hi, Thanks for the replies, yes the flaring up was caused by an oversize jet, when the vapouriser was replaced by one from another Tilley the problem was gone, also blowing bubbles through it in a cup of water showed the jet to be much larger in the new vapouriser.
    This was a brand new genuine Tilley 606 vapouriser bought for £25.00 from flea bay, the seller however agreed to take it back with no hassle, I am now wary of supposedly genuine Tilley parts and still have to buy a new vapouriser,
    any recommendations anybody?
     
  6. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Shetland Islands UK..
    It's best to look for the vapourisers which are in older packaging and which have brass bottom ends, the more modern vapourisers have steel bottom ends.
    The brass bottom ends are threaded and screw into the bottom of the vapouriser tube, but the steel bottom ends are simply shoved into the tube and sometimes they leak and have to be soldered.
     
  7. JonD

    JonD Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    585
    Location:
    Hertfordshire, England
    Interesting idea with the bubble size when passing air under water...must try that.

    Buying new or old 606s is totally hit and miss. Look on this forum for the thread about Korean made replacements.
    They will cost you around 1.5x the price of a new 606 but you get something with replaceable needles and jets and 2 of each thrown into the bargain.

    Your lamp will not be quite original but it will work - which is the whole point of it being.
     
  8. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    298
    Welcome to the forum, plenty of friendly help here ........
     
  9. JonD

    JonD Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    585
    Location:
    Hertfordshire, England
    You reminded me to light it again tonight.

    This one is an X246B (boo-hiss!! they don't like those much here)
    It is from 1964, the first year of production.

    I have had no end of trouble with new and old 606 vapourisers for it. Here it is with a replacement Korean one.

    It lights very easily every time and it just runs... DSCN5204.JPG
     
  10. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Shetland Islands UK..
    It's working well!:thumbup:
     
  11. MYN

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    593
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Speaking of a Tilley X246B, I've got a flaming problem like the one here when fueled with kerosene.
    My guess was a enlarged jet, although I was quite doubful since the unit was a NOS then.
    I took some risks and used petrol for a test. It lit up well, but I was not the least bit pleased as it was meant for kerosene.
    I shut it down and left it aside for quite awhile since I could not find a replacement vaporiser and I'm aware of the dangers of petrol on such lanterns.
    Came back for it after a couple of months or so as the though kept bothering me.
    I found that the flaming problem on my Tilley was not due to an enlarged jet.
    It was due to a small leak at the crimped end of the jet(its a crimped steel vaporiser). It was not obvious earlier and I failed to notice this. Therefore, the fuel-air mix was way too rich and thus, the sooty flames and a black mantle.
    I managed to seal the leak and the unit is working as it should be now.
    I really like the design of the vaporiser and the symmetrical spigot-style burner of these Tilleys(also Vapaluxes and Bialaddins) because its centrally positioned with three symmetrical air inlet tubes. This way, the generator is not in the way of the radiant light to cast any shadows.
     
  12. Mollbhan

    Mollbhan United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Highland
    Well done for sealing up the leaking crimp, can't imagine how you did it solder wouldn't be much use there.
    I can imagine it would light up very well when fuelled with petrol, you were lucky to survive it unscathed, I have a petrol primus stove and lighting this can be quite exciting, wouldn't advise anybody to ever put petrol in a paraffin lamp or stove.
     
  13. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    6,406
    Location:
    North-East England
    Another fault we can add to the list evidencing the hopeless build quality and complete lack of any final inspection of current Tilley output...
     
  14. MYN

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2018
    Messages:
    593
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Solder wouldn't work there.
    I tried brazing it with silvered copper with the aid of some flux. It was not easy as the jet orifice is just too close to the area concerned. I could have screwed the jet if the silver braze flowed into the orifice.
    I don't think it was the braze that sealed the leak, but the flux residue instead.
    I believe some exhaust cement would do better there.
    I've read that the newer Tilley vaporisers are very much inferior in quality compared to the earlier models.
     
  15. Mollbhan

    Mollbhan United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Highland
    Have 'hopefully' attached an image ( I aint no computer geek) these two lamps were in my deceased father in laws shed he had a cabin from the late 1940s to the 1980s where the family spent holidays, I think the lamps probably date from the late 40s. Neither worked straight off, the vapalux just popped and popped non stop, a vapouriser from another vapalux put that right, the Tilley also needed a new vapouriser,other than that it was just new washers and pump seals, of the four pressure lamps I have the old Tilley gives the best light output,I also have a Tilley from the 1970s, works fine but the build quality is obviously inferior. Happy fettling everybody.
    P1010650.JPG
    PS Not sure whether I should be sending images thumbnail or full size.
     
  16. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Shetland Islands UK..
    That's a good start!:thumbup::thumbup:
     
  17. KAB

    KAB Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    324
    Location:
    South East England
    Full size images show the image without having to click to view.
    The Tilley is from 1946 to 50, earlier the cage had lugs, not ears, later would be the dome tank and not the pork pie you have. Light and enjoy
     
  18. Mollbhan

    Mollbhan United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Highland
    Thanks for the info KAB, that would tie in with my father in law buying his holiday hut.
    To bring up a completely different subject I often see photos of highly polished lamps with brass tanks, can anybody tell me which models were made in brass, why, and is it the brass tanks which are prone to cracking, all my lamps appear to have steel tanks?
     
  19. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Shetland Islands UK..
    Your Tilley lantern which is shown in the photograph has a brass tank, but the cage is made from steel, the hood is also made from brass except for the cowl.
    Your Vapalux lantern appears to be a brass one, but the handle is made from steel of course.

    I use a magnet to test for steel.

    During WW2., Tilley and other companies used steel because of the wartime shortages, but brass was available at times and some Tilleys from that period are made from a combination of steel and brass, for example, some brass tanks had steel base plates and vice versa, the link below shows relevant information.

    Some of the brass which Tilley used during WW2., was of poorer quality than the pre war brass and I have had several table lamps from that period which leaked.

    Some Bialaddin lanterns develop stress cracks in the bottom rim and all metal can suffer from metal fatigue.

    4 Tilley WW2., pumps.
     
  20. Mollbhan

    Mollbhan United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Highland
    I stand corrected Jeff, of the four lamps I have only the old vapalux in the photo above seems to have a steel tank. I can only assume they were not produced in bare brass like primus stoves because of the additional cleaning and polishing that would be involved.
     
  21. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Shetland Islands UK..

Share This Page