Frankenstein Hipolito Petromax help needed

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by danielzink, Sep 18, 2016.

  1. danielzink

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    I recently bid and won this lantern on the 'bay:

    hp1.jpg

    I bid low and won - so I figured it might make a nice project...

    unfortunately the post had different ideas...or maybe they thought it would be nice to turn it into a bigger project than anticipated..


    hp2.jpg

    hp3.jpg


    Luckily the seller didn't seem to want to fool around with claims etc...so he refunded me the entire purchase price...

    Now I have a few dollars to try and restore the lantern back to operational condition.

    First off - does anyone have a clue as to what the globe may have been ?

    There has been some "DIY" done on the lantern to accommodate this particular globe:


    hp4.jpg

    hp5.jpg


    It has what looks to be a "brass" burner:

    hp6.jpg

    Under the mixing tube is this nut and bolt ?

    hp7.jpg

    The base seems fairly standard:

    hp8.jpg

    Air pump valve soldered in:

    hp9.jpg

    It's combination of several parts:

    hp10.jpg

    hp11.jpg

    hp13.jpg

    Date code? :

    hp12.jpg

    Lastly....I've had other Petromax'es, Aida's and Hipo's in the past...maybe my memory fails...but I don't remember this "screen" under the generator:

    hp14.jpg

    Any info/help/advice would be greatly appreciated..

    The lantern is stripped down to the bare fount right now.

    Going to order a rebuild kit (lead washers/pump cup/generator etc.)

    Lastly...

    How do I remove the NRV ?

    It is fully loosened inside the tube. Spinning freely...I just can't get it to come out of the pump tube.

    Thanks !!

    Dan
     
  2. Martin K.

    Martin K. Subscriber

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  3. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    A good find which should restore well enough! :thumbup:
     
  4. Claus C

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    Yes Dan, Martin is right. That is a typical amish-rebuild. I have photos of a Hipolito with exact the same modifications. The snaplock on the hood is very simple and effective.
    Congratulation with at genuine piece of American history. It should be baptized Petromax 829, Amish Special :D Not "frankenlamp".
    The seal around the NRV is led and if it is loose, then just tap up and down till the shaped led goes free of the coil and drops out or superglue a stick to the NRV and gently pull/wrickle it out. Works most of the time.

    Claus C
     
  5. phaedrus42

    phaedrus42 Subscriber

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    Hi Dan,

    There is often a bit of corrosion or other deposits on the outside of the NRV tube which stops it from dropping out. A long forceps has helped me to extract a few of them with no damage. You can also try to push it out with a long thin rod or screwdriver inserted into the fount through the filler opening.
     
  6. danielzink

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    Today was a good day...with a little bit of patience the NRV came out.

    Luckily the pricker rod is still nice and straight in spite of the bend in the generator.

    The jet reads 500.

    Once I get to that point...any guesses ? should this lantern run on kero or white gas ?

    I see in one of the links in a previous post that one of the lanterns runs on white gas ?

    If it truly is an Amish lantern..isn't it more likely to run kero ?

    Thanks, Dan
     
  7. Martin K.

    Martin K. Subscriber

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    Dan,
    the Preston-loop vaporizer should be fine to use kero. This kind of fuel is recommended because the lantern doesn't have a positive fuel valve to turn it off.
    The 500 marking on the jet means 500HK (or nearly 500CP), which should be enough by far to light your backyard...
    Regards, Martin
     
  8. Claus C

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    The amish uses both kinds of fuel, gasoline or kerrosene, so if the system, the smell from the tank, or other clues isnt obvious, then I would start with kerrosene, though it probably is made for gasoline :D :D
    I would anytime keep the lamp as the Amish-edition it came to you in.

    Claus C
     
  9. danielzink

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    Well....as of right now ?......

    She's a better looker than a runner....

    After a nice citric acid bath and some polishing...she's a beauty...new lead washers..new generator..globe...

    hp15.jpg

    hp15.1.jpg

    hp16.jpg

    hp17.jpg

    hp18.jpg

    There's an ever so slight leak at this solder joint....I'll need some direction as to making it sound again...

    hp20.jpg

    Now for the exciting part....

    I did a nice pre-heat (filled the alcohol cup twice) before opening the valve...

    Right off I could tell something was up....I was only getting an orange mantle with with quite a large "halo" around it....

    After a minute or so...I looked at the mixing tube...

    hp24.jpg


    and then ?........

    hp25.jpg

    I immediately shut it down and let it cool off...

    This is what I found...

    hp23.jpg

    hp21.jpg

    hp27.jpg

    I decided to pull out and fire up my trusty Hipolito..

    one pre-heat..and...

    hp28.jpg

    Bright white...and no cherry red mixing tube....

    Letting both lanterns cool down (and myself as well)...I think I've found at least part of the issue...

    Hipolito:

    hp29.jpg

    hp30.jpg


    Amish lantern ?

    hp26.jpg

    Due to the construction of the lantern and the new globe rest etc..if I try to get the proper clearance between the mixing tube and the jet...the mixing tube will be well above its hole in the burner hood.

    All of leads me to believe ? this lantern was running on Coleman fuel/white gas...

    Dan
     
  10. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Dan,

    Did you notice the black "tail" on the jet and air chamber ?
    For me points to a leaking jet, loose or faulty thread.

    I guess you got the problems with using kerosene. Guess what happend while using gasoline/coleman fuel.
    Letting pressure off, to dimm the lantern ??
     
  11. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    G'day Dan, Is the new generator the same length as the old one? Just a thought.
     
  12. danielzink

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    I'm really quite hesitant to try a run with white gas .....after the flame-out....

    :shock:
     
  13. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    Dan,

    I can understand why you're hesitant about trying white gas in this lantern. That would be a very good cure for constipation !

    As Martin suggested, "is the new generator the same length as the old one?"
    Have you tried straightening the old generator to get a more accurate measurement ?

    Is there evidence that some sort of spacer may have been fitted ?

    I'd be tempted to adjust the mixing tube as high as it will go without being above the burner and have another go. The air gap may not be correct but the improvement should be significant.

    A little copper based grease on the jet threads will ensure a good seal.

    Henry.
     
  14. danielzink

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    Okay.

    All generators are exactly the same size, height and diameter...

    This picture should pretty well illustrate what's going on with the lantern.

    As you can see...the frame sits lower than the standard Hipolito/Aida/Petromax frame.

    This brings the mixing tube in much closer proximity to the end of the generator and jet.

    Now...I'm only speculating...but with the higher flash point of white gas over kero..this is possibly the right"air/fuel" mixture..again for white gas...

    Anyone want to stop by when I load this thing up with Coleman fuel and light her off ? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

    amishhipo.jpg
     
  15. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    Dan,

    You could be correct about the air gap giving the correct mixture for white gas. After all, it will have the same effect as putting a restrictor in the air tube of a burner of different design.

    Only one way to find out - nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    Unfortunately, I'm a little too far away to "stop by" when you try Coleman fuel but I do hope your theory is correct and you have success.

    Stay safe,
    Henry.
     
  16. Carlsson

    Carlsson Sweden Admin/Founder Member

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    I really think the problem is as Wim suggest.
    That problem is of course the first you should deal with.
    Then you might proceed with the air gap.
    But try it first with an 'un-leaking' jet.

    As he says, you can see from the picture showing the jet, that it has a sooty trail coming out from under it.
    You can also clearly see that you have a little flame coming out from there when you are running the lantern.
    Loosen the jet and check that the sealing surfaces are OK.
    Then put it back with e.g. some copper paste on the threads and tighten it good.

    1475308894-hp23.jpg
     

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  17. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    ... and make sure the jet of fuel goes straight up.
    If the nozzle is "fixed' as like they do in India then you have several issues of which the distance is the smaller one.

    Some frankenlamps are intriguing but in general, the basic design is the best the engineers could make work. So any change will effect the workings.

    And as with any "new" lamp: test it outside.
    And keep in mind: you can't turn the darn thing off.
     
  18. danielzink

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    Slowly making progress...

    I changed the jet and sealed it with some "muffler cement" and adjusted the the mixing tube up to 500cp specs from the jet...

    hp31.jpg

    hp32.jpg

    An issue is that with the mixing tube adjusted that far up it interferes with the hood latching mechanism...

    hp5.jpg


    So I did my best to secure it and went about lighting the lantern..

    After running for a good 5 - 10 minutes or so...

    No cherry red mixing tube anymore...but still only getting an orange mantle...still running rich by my assessment...

    hp33.jpg


    I think my next experiment may be to lower the mixing tube back down to where it was...flush the tank...fill it with Coleman fuel...and take it out into the middle of the yard and try to run it...

    :shock:

    My joke of course...I realize the majority of the board is on the "other side of the pond"....but...if this thing fails spectacularly...you still may able to see the smoke from there...keep your eyes on the sky... :lol: :lol:

    Dan
     
  19. expat

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    Have you thought about trying a 350 jet instead of a 500 to test to see if you can lean the mixture off?
     
  20. danielzink

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    Good idea !

    When I order the rebuild kit for the second lantern I'll send for 350 jet as well.

    Thanks !
     
  21. stormie4me

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    i again wanted to say that i have extra parts for that lantern ;the collar a vaporizer the correct valve wheel a vent and air chamber ;plus a few other parts if needed 'and yes where did you get the gobe as i will need one as well ;heck for 10 dollars a piece and a small shipping cost i couldn't go wrong ;do let me know your thoughts ;and yes a frame
     
  22. Lundo007

    Lundo007 Subscriber

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    You have a mixture screw on j tube to fine tune also. Fire it up let it get warm and see if it makes any difference.
     

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