Goulburn Special Founts.

Discussion in 'Pressure Lamp Discussion Forum' started by Matty, Jul 6, 2015.

  1. Matty

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    G'day all,

    Has anyone ever pulled a Goulburn Special apart or seen photos of one pulled apart so you can see how the stem attaches to the fount? Or does anyone know if anyone has tried to screw a Tilley/Kayen control cock into the fount to see if it fits? If so, what were the results?

    I understand that it's common belief that the founts are Kayen.

    One collector I know owns a Goulburn Special. He says that he has tried Goulburn Special pumps on a Kayen fount but they won't fit into the Kayen pump hole, they are too large. He suspects the founts are a copy of Kayen, though not actually made for Kayen lamps and lanterns.

    He has never removed the cage and the rest of the assembly from the fount and doesn't want to. He wants to leave it well enough alone, as he found it.
     
  2. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    I have just received a Quirk’s (“Goulburn Special”) table lamp, and I’ve been reading all the threads and posts on this enigma.

    C6BD29C8-2E2C-447E-8BAC-A3ABC25CE5D9.jpeg

    I’ve tried a variety of both Nettlefold and Kopsen Kayen pumps, as well as two Tilley pumps that were present on Kayen lanterns. All these pumps fit my Quirk’s table lamp.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  3. Graham P Australia

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    I have a Quirks (so called (Goulburn Special)) Lantern have just tried this pump in , Kayen HL7 table lamp 7off , AP2 lantern 3-4 off, HR11 Heater 2-3 off and HL4 Hand lamp .The pump tube slid into 1 HL7 Kopsen (black AP2 in pic) IMG_20180813_211305.jpg close but no fit in 2-3 more the pump collar would only screw onto 2 or 3 some would start but only 1-1.5 turns then jamb The pump Has a loose ring knurled collar to hold to the font and held on pump tube by top cap of the pump the tube is 19.02mm dia
     
  4. Nils Stephenson

    Nils Stephenson Founder Member

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    This makes me wonder if there is any issue between Kopsen and Nettlefold pumps/tanks?
     
  5. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Looks like I’ll have to line up all my Kopsen and Nettlefold Kayen tanks on the weekend to try all the pump combinations right down to fully tight.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  6. Matty

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    To me, this is the most interesting aspect of the subject. I haven't played around with Kayen or Tilley since I lost interest a couple of years ago. I do remember some pump tubes not wanting to fit in the comparison tank. I also seem to remember the screws that hold the radiator reflector on were a different thread from Kayen to Tilley and also the the screw that holds the radiator handle on. I can't recall if I ever found a thread size bettween Kopsen and Nettlefold that differed.

    It should be considered when using threads that are or aren't interchangeable, from one brand to another I.E. Quirks, Tilley and Kayen, that it may not be evidence of collusion.

    For instance, I have a valve out of a Wizard hollow wire tank that is screwed into a Tilley R55 tank. A Kayen control cock will screw into a Coeman BQ air/fuel valve thread. A Kildark air/fuel valve that screws onto a 1930's Australian Gloria table lamp, etc, etc.
     
  7. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    I have always wondered about those GS tanks. I assumed they were old Tilley stock but are they perhaps Kayen? One thing is for sure the GS lamps were a marriage of parts. Tanks not sure except they were lantern tanks with the handle bolts capped off but the rest is AGM which makes sense since Quirkes sold AGM stuff and they used up parts from long obsolete AGM lamps. We don't see enough of them here so it is impossible to be sure because in the UK we can't compare with Kayen. ::Neil::
     
  8. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Mackburner

    I’ll do some more measurements on the weekend (I’m travelling at the moment), but my intitial impression is that they are Nettlefold Kayen tanks.

    But there are at least two similar but different Quirk’s (Goulburn Special) tanks (see here), that look very much like Nettlefold Kayen tanks.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  9. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Graham P, @Anthony, @Mackburner, @Nils Stephenson & @Matty

    I’ll post photos tomorrow, but...

    All of the pumps on my Nettlefold (5) and Kopsen (3) Kayen lanterns are interchangeable.

    Some are a bit fiddly.

    They all fit the Quirk’s and visa vesa.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  10. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Graham P, @Anthony, @Mackburner, @Nils Stephenson & @Matty

    Photos of the pumps...

    But first, as you will see in the first three photographs, the Quirk's tank is not exactly the same shape as the Nettlefold Kayen tank. More about the tanks after the photos and the pumps.


    Four Nettlefold Kayen lanterns and the Quirk's:
    P1020576.jpg

    P1020577.jpg


    The pumps are in the same order left to right as the lanterns above (pumps 3 & 4 are Tilley pumps that came with the Nettlefold Kayen lanterns). The Quirk's pump is on the right:

    P1020578.jpg

    P1020580.jpg

    P1020582.jpg


    These two lanterns are Kopsen Kayens:

    P1020584.jpg

    P1020585.jpg

    All the pumps are interchangeable, although some were a bit fiddly to get started.



    Now to the Quirk's tank.



    Here is the Quirk's next to the first on the left Nettlefold Kayen:

    P1020587.jpg

    P1020586.jpg

    P1020588.jpg


    Here, the second from the left:

    P1020589.jpg

    P1020590.jpg

    P1020591.jpg




    Here next to the third:

    P1020595.jpg

    P1020596.jpg

    P1020597.jpg


    Lastly the fourth:

    P1020592.jpg

    P1020593.jpg

    P1020594.jpg


    Although superficially similar, no one Nettlefold Kayen tank is exactly the same as the Quirk's, and there are differences among the Kayens. The Quirk's tank appears to be more straight-sided than No. 4 of Kayens; the bottom vertical section of the tank on the Quirk's is slightly higher than the Kayens; and the top of the tank on the Quirk's is slightly flatter than the Kayens.

    In this thread it can be seen that there are differences in the way the brass is folded underneath the Kayen and Quirk's tank (my Quirk's tank has a different fold underneath it than does @Anthony's.

    The Kopsen Kayen tank is quite different to both the Quirk's and the Nettlefold Kayen tanks.



    I conclude that there is more than one "pressing" of the Nettlefold Kayen tanks (possibly at least three); and that there are at least two "pressings" of the Quirk's tank.


    Cheers


    Tony
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  11. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    Tony, my Quirks table lamp does not have a pump but one of those cap valve thingies. My Quirks lantern does have a pump.

    I tried the pump and the cap on 15 Nettlefold AP2s.
    The cap went on 6 of them all the way to compress a seal.The other 9 were getting stopped by the thread before it would create a seal.
    The pump would not go into the filler hole on 14 of them and only just with one. Pic below. The shadow is making the gap look bigger than it is.

    All Kayen pumps fit the table lamp and the lantern perfectly.

    I should mention that I can not be 100% sure that any of these parts are original. :doh:](*,):roll:

    IMG_0311.JPG IMG_0308.JPG IMG_0314.JPG IMG_0312.JPG
     
  12. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Anthony

    I think Kayen’s motto could have been:

    “Whatever comes to hand”.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  13. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    @Tony Press , you may be right on the money there. What Quirks and Kayen had in common was a short expected life in lamps.
     

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