Handi - Foot Valve Problem

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Paul Aslanides, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. Paul Aslanides Australia

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    Hi All. New chap here, in Melbourne. I have leaky foot valve in my Handi Keropet Lantern, so I need some advice on how to rebuild the valve.
    I see that one can buy " pips " for rebuilding NRV, foot valves. There are two sizes apparently, 4 m/m and 4.5 m/m diameter. Don't know if one would fit the Handi valve, the Handi valve is smaller than most others, I think. Strange thread too, on the valve: 7.5 m/m diameter (from memory) with a pitch of 0.7 m/m approx. That's about one thou under 19/64 " inch. None of my thread gauges seem to fit this thread, which is about 36.285 threads per inch, unless I'm wrong. Any rate, if I buy the pips, hopefully it would just press into the very small valve holder, or do we glue it into place ?
    I do have some lead sheet and punches, and could make the washer to suit the valve, but it's hard to get the right size, and the washer gets quite distorted by the punch. I wonder if washers are available ?
    This lantern I found on the nature strip, put out with the rubbish. Put it in for servicing, twice, to get it going. Will post photos when I work out how ...
    Please would someone advise me where to buy the leather pump cups ?
    Thank you.
    Paul.
     
  2. kero-scene Australia

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    Hi Paul,

    Welcome to the forum.

    The pips do just press in, although as you note they need to be the right size. (In my Keropet that’s 4mm).

    For the pump leather, one approach is to measure the internal diameter of the pump tube and then look on eBay or similiar for a leather cup that suits. (My Keropet pumptube measures about 16-17mm.)

    Possibly the best approach if you are new to this is to email The Fettlebox (the site sponsor) - if Neil can supply them you are in luck as he will no doubt get the sizes correct!

    The difficulty getting parts is just one of the things that make Handi a somewhat difficult brand to have as your first lantern (in my opinion). My Handi seals and washers were cut for me by a Lampie who is not a member of this forum, but there are Handi-fans here who will no doubt reply shortly!
     
  3. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Welcome to CPL.

    It's Ross at the Fettle Box... not Neil.


    Cheers

    Tony
     
  4. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    Welcome from Toowoomba Queensland
    Try the fettle box and also other breeds of lanterns may have leather pump cups of a similar size. You could try “Juliands” on the bay of evil.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  5. kero-scene Australia

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    My apologies for the mix up with names.

    (I feel fortunate to have benefited from both gentlemen’s skills).
     
  6. Paul Aslanides Australia

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    Many thanks, gentlemen. Much obliged to you. I'm in the process of knocking up an order, but the Fettlebox site is extremely slow at present, and Mr. Juliands is on holiday.
    I will Handi Keropet 1.jpg Handi Keropet 5.jpg Handi Keropet 6.jpg Handi Keropet 3.jpg Handi Keropet 2.jpg accumulate some spare parts for my collection over the next few months. The Handi lantern, Companion stove, and the Coleman 500 stove all need refurbishing. Now if only I can remember just where I saw those pips, I'll buy some. The sellers on Ebay seem to have only two sizes of leather cups - small and large.
    The Fettlebox site looks quite good, as the part numbers are quoted, etc. I think that the Handi cups are smaller than the Coleman. No mind, I'll get there.

    When the Handi is operational, the final problem is that some so-and-so cut the top off the threaded stud at the top of the frame, which holds the cap on; and now it is so short that the knurled nut will not engage the thread, 5/16 " BSW. Aaaarrrgghh! Would anyone know if this stud can be removed, and a new one put in ? I'm hoping it is threaded and soldered, or silver soldered into the frame. Of course, it has to be a gastight joint. Extracting the old stud is going to be a tricky job.
    Is it possible to unscrew the burner to clean it ? Heat and quench ?

    Cheers.
    Paul.
     
  7. Darryl Durdin

    Darryl Durdin Australia Subscriber

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    Hello Paul and welcome to the CPL,
    I JUST LOVE THE HANDI KERO PET.
    I maybe have over 20 that i have fettled back to life there are over 12 different style bur are all whats call type 3.
    Great lanterns, easily the quickest pre heat and light up.
    The Fettle Box NRV pip, holder, spring,lead washer are great and great quality it is what i use on most NRV, you can make your own if you have the skill set and tools, use viton 4mm, size up diameter punch, it dose go in you need to work it into the cup, cut of excess must be dead straight flat, slightly proud of the cup holder. Smooth like shine. It is abit fiddly.
    I have never unscrewed the burner head, no need. But do flush out the air tubes, wasp nest dirt etc, you can see when they are cleared.
    Be careful when you take the generator tubue off
    There are no replacement pricker needles.
    Do you have a globe
    Can you remove the NRV
    I have the burner assembly if yours is to far gone,
    I have spares as well, see how you go if you are needing any thing inbox me, or do ask the fellas there is a great wealth of tips information and good paractial knoledge of all things lantern. 20200217_085536.jpg 20200217_085555.jpg
    Here is what it all looks like.
    I have been experimenting on making my own pricker needle, this one failed, the tolerences are the key to making them work without breaking the wire pricker, im close though.
    I hope this all helps.
     
  8. Paul Aslanides Australia

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    Many thanks, Darryl, those two photos are most useful ! I think that these Handi lanterns are pretty scarce down here in Melbourne.
    I'll buy new pips, rather that try to make them, as I doubt I could cut them squarely, to seal properly.
    It's many years since the lantern was fired up, and in that time the bucket, cup, has shrunk, and the foot valve or washer not sealing. If I can't buy a new washer to seal the valve, 7.5 m/m I.D. I think, I'll make one.
    Yes, I have the foot valve out O.K.
    I'll clean the air tubes and burner casting carefully.
    Yes, I do have the glass, globe for it.
    Questions:
    How do you get the base plate so clean ?
    Acid etch ? Acid soak ?
    What paint to use ?
    Your burner casting is BRASS ?
    Or painted to look like brass ?
    The stud up top looks like it has been brazed in with a brass filler rod ?
    I need to know if it is safe to remove the old stud and silver solder in a new one.
    Again - many thanks for your advice.
    Cheers. Paul.
     
  9. Nils Stephenson

    Nils Stephenson Founder Member

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    That is a nice early version of the KeroPet and should clean up nicely.
    Just a couple of points:
    I believe the stud for the top nut is just brazed to the outside of the tube. I'm sure they would have had a jig to hold things square in the factory. It also looks like you have a top nut from an Austramax. I'm not sure if the threads are compatible, I have never tried.
    I assume when you say foot valve, you mean the pump valve or NRV. When it is pulled apart, the small brass cup has a cork pip in it which can be replaced with a 4mm diameter 3mm thick Viton rubber pip.
    If the leather pump washer is still whole and just shrunk as you say, it is possible to just soak it in some light machine oil then carefully squeeze around the edge with some small flat nose pliers to expand the leather. I would always use a mineral oil as vegetable oils can go rancid.
     
  10. Paul Aslanides Australia

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    Thank you, Nils. Spot on ! I always thought that domed top nut on the Handi looked familiar - I've just now compared it to those on my two Austramax lanterns, and yes, it is the exactly the same as one of them. Perhaps they got mixed up years ago. Thread is 5/16 BSW. It's a relief to know that the stud does not intrude into the casting, less chance of a leak. Setting a new one in squarely will be fun, without a jig. New pips for the NRV will be on their way soon, and I'll try your trick on the pump washer. Much obliged.
     
  11. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Welcome aboard!:thumbup:
     
  12. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Paul

    There are glasses for the Handi on the bay of evil.

    You could ring TW Sands in Melbourne if you need any parts.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  13. Darryl Durdin

    Darryl Durdin Australia Subscriber

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    Hi Paul, the handi, yes as above you can refit another top screw, silver solder to the original if you have the skill set and resourses
    20200220_165643.jpg , your collar is like one of mine , the badge is rivited to the collar,
    20200220_165724.jpg most are or have like little tabs that bend into the holes,
    20200220_165813.jpg i jave one like this but i have only ever seen it on what is an earlier model wth an AGM burner, before the present handi burner. I have no explanation but it makes your lantern that bit more unique.
    20200220_165910.jpg
    I get mt plate and burner assembly looking like this, i have a small sand blaster, that cleans up everything, then a brush up with a dremel and polish brush, the plate when im happy with it i spray paint ultra high temperature silver, i can never polish it back to shiny.
    To clean up parts, straight vinigar, cheap, vinigar will kill any rust, remove tarnish from brass and chrome, keep an eye on it it is strong, but effective, you can dilute it it takes longer but not so agressive. You may have to repeat, wash off, use brass wire brush, repeat. Until happy.
    You can get parts from T W Sands Melbourne.
    As tony metioned, i have bought many bits and pieces over the time, great resourses and knowledgeable on all things lantern
    I hope this all helps you Paul.
    Note do not put the pricker in vinegar it will eat the fine pricker wire.
    Happy fettle
     
  14. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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  15. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    No, I can't say that I've noticed one like that, I'd better have a closer look at mine.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  16. Darryl Durdin

    Darryl Durdin Australia Subscriber

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    I have it on the lantern above, but here is a better shot, , i will check my other handi's,
    Shellite/ petrol Handi's have a blue badge, mess inside generator, slightly bigger jet.
    Kero, red badge, curly brass or steel restrictor inside generator, pricker needle and rod are the same.
    20200221_091006.jpg

    20200221_091016.jpg
    This is the badge, same as yours Paul im guessing, i only have seen this badge on the hand's with small perforated collars, the others have the tabs that bend into the hole.
    My older AGM, types do not have badges.
    Handi Kero Pet lanterns are very cool. This is why i like them so much
     
  17. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Thanks, Darryl. I couldn’t read that label before.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  18. Darryl Durdin

    Darryl Durdin Australia Subscriber

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    I think this may help you Paul 20200221_094626.jpg 20200221_094605.jpg
     
  19. Darryl Durdin

    Darryl Durdin Australia Subscriber

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    This is a shellite Handi Kero Pet
    Blue badge, states use shellite 20200221_174809.jpg
    Very bright and very cool. I really like this one
     
  20. Nils Stephenson

    Nils Stephenson Founder Member

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    Sorry for the late reply, but I've been on holidays. :)

    This label is the first KeroPet label and was used on the models with the small holed collar. That would put it in the early to mid 1940s. With the introduction of the large holed collar, I think they introduced the label with the tabs. Actually, most of the lamps from this era tend to be without labels so it is hard to be sure. Whether they never had any or they have just come off and been lost is a mystery.

    I have one with this label on the variant from 1945 to 1947. The picture is quite poor but it does show the original red colour.
    Handi_KeroPet_H8_label.jpg
     
  21. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Thanks, Nils.

    Cheers

    Tony
     

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