Ipswich 2018

Discussion in 'Events & Meets' started by Mackburner, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Saturday 20th October. Old Trolleybus Depot, Cobham Road, Ipswich Suffolk IP3 9JDdoors open for the public at 5:30.

    Henry, Stu and I will be there. We are trying an English theme this time with very little Tilley or Vapalux but a few of the lesser known and harder to find lamps from here. Kitson, Welsbach, Cleary, Pifco, Nova and Stanleys. Oh and Henry is hoping to have a few Blanchard running at full chat. IF we can make them all actually work it should be a great evening. ::Neil::
     
  2. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    hhhm, doesn't sound like that is our local busstation ;)
     
  3. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    There are ferries to Harwich from the Hook. Perhaps a bit of a trek for just a few hours though. ::Neil::
     
  4. Matty

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    @Mackburner

    For collectors to be able to meet up with you, Stu and Henry, a couple of hours trip seems to me, an extremely small sacrifice.

    I'd give me left -Tilley EX100 handle- nut to be able to meet you three at the one location.

    I'd be taking problematic lamps, English or otherwise, to have a chat with you three about it/them. Stu, with his machining skills, the advice he could give to help resurrect a lamp that is missing a part or a lamp that may have a part that is broken, would be worth the trip alone.

    You and Henry with your practical skills and knowledge of the inner workings of lamps - a bloody goldmine for a few hours trip.

    Then of course, the 10's of thousands of research hours stored in your mind/s. Whoa, what a blast it would be chatting with you three!
     
  5. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Actually not the best of places to stand and chat. Dark for one thing. Well not around our tables but otherwise it is. The other problem is there are a lot of folk around and we get distracted by quite a few so it often seems we can never chat for long because of the demands on our time. Sometimes I worry about folk thinking we are a bit disinterested but this is not the case. We are constantly watching lamps and with around 25 running there are always some with problems so mostly half my mind is on them. Works the other way as well. Had a chap last year show me a photograph of a 4 burner Tilley chandelier and I forgot to get his details so I don't even remember the name never mind contact details. Very frustrating.

    Waving problem lamps at us is not ideal either since we don't carry much in the way of tools and spares with us. So we may well know what is required but can't fettle much at the time. Mind you often we can help with info so it's never wasted time.


    ::Neil::
     
  6. X246A

    X246A United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi folks

    I'm down to be there again this year and look forward to meeting up again.

    @Mackburner it was me who sent the chap to you with the 4 arm and also a standard lamp if I remember correctly.

    I think he may be on Facebook. I'll see if I can identify him for you.

    Regards Jeremy
     
  7. Jean J

    Jean J Subscriber

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    What, a real FS or a made up one? Assume it’s a made up one as someone who fashions a 4 burner chandelier will obviously stop at nothing.
     
  8. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    If I recall correctly, this, and other multi-armed variants appeared on eBay a few years ago. They appeared to be nicely engineered from the images but not original, of course, and with four (or more) burners and only one standard tank, they wouldn't burn for very long before needing to be refilled... :doh:

    I've a vague memory the standard lamp was made-up, too...
     
  9. X246A

    X246A United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I believe it was a genuine 4 arm as it was obtained from the chap who stripped it out of a railway station that was being modernised, the other chandeliers were broken up and skipped so the story went.

    Regards Jeremy
     
  10. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    :-k Jeremy, on which page of Jim Dick's book is the genuine Tilley 4-arm chandelier shown... ;) :lol:
     
  11. X246A

    X246A United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @David Shouksmith

    Agreed, but Neil seemed pretty convinced by the authenticity from the photographs.

    Regards Jeremy
     
  12. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Neil - what does he know about lamps, eh... :roll: ;) :lol:
     
  13. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Looked pretty convincing to me. It was indeed a standard tank but it was the 6pint type used for FL 4/5 lamps in the mid 1930s so it would have the same burn time as a 300cp lantern.

    I would certainly like to see this item in the flesh and have the oportunity to photograph it. ::Neil::
     
  14. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    OK, but railway stations are part of railways which always have extensive engineering workshops associated with them. It wouldn't take anything to produce a four-outlet adaptor to screw into the top of the tank - less than half a morning's work to a competent railway engineer with all the tools and facilities to hand - witness the three London Transport types we know of.

    :-k On the other hand, I suppose they could have been produced at the Tilley factory to special order - but without any evidence, what's to support that? What I recall of the eBay ones (assuming this is one of them) is that there were at least two types with multiple arms, very highly polished and giving me every impression they had been recently manufactured as some sort of novelty. The description made me suspicious, too...
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  15. Matthew92

    Matthew92 Subscriber

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    I haven’t got my book to look at, but the market stall lamp had a large tank similar to the fl5 didn’t it? Perhaps that lamp was produced with more than two arms?

    But as you say David, not beyond the capabilities of a competent engineer, heck, might not even have to be competent, I’ll have a go one day.:lol:
     
  16. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    I also saw the photograph but can't remember if the arms exited the central boss on the same plane or one pair were above the other - if it's significant, what I do remember is the owner of the lamp saying that you had to light one opposing pair of burners first and then the other, lighting two adjacent burners just didn't work.

    Henry.
     
  17. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    I have no doubt the various parts were period i.e. from the 1930s. The tank certainly is and I assume the burner heads were also. So I don't think it was a modern fantasy but the real thing from a real station. Made by Tilley or GWR actually makes little difference since they existed and were made for a specific purpose and as such I have them listed. I do want to see it though and get some better images. ::Neil::
     
  18. Matty

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    On what page of Jim Dick's book is this lamp shown on?


    [​IMG]
     
  19. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    OK, Matty, as you imply, 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. Now I expect you'll be blowing my ship right out of the water by showing us the advert you've just found depicting the various multi-armed Tilley chandeliers; and knowing you, probably preceded by a massive drum-roll, fanfares, fireworks and a triumphant TA-DA!! ;) :lol:

    In the PLC? - I hadn't noticed. Knowing how reluctant you are to list anything in the PLC without solid verification, I guess you must have more evidence of their existence than a photograph. The one I saw photographed in an eBay listing undoubtedly used Tilley parts i.e. tank, burners and, presumably, the swan necks. It was the multi-exit tank spigot I'd assumed had been recently manufactured and used to cobble up the whole. I daresay my judgement was swayed because they had been polished to buggery, presumably for the eBay sale, and the text was far from being convincing...

    Notwithstanding you and Matty being firmly persuaded of their existence as a genuine Tilley / GWR item, I think I prefer to reserve my judgement until I see incontrovertible proof - not long in coming, hopefully... 8] :thumbup:

    Edit - One quick search later:-
    Screen Shot 193.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  20. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Hmmm you're not supposed to be able to do that. No matter though. The IL25 is in the PLC because of the advert which Matty found and copied to me a while back. It remains the only evidence for the lamp but if it was advertised for sale then there were stocks with the hardware dealer concerned ergo the lamp existed and I listed it. As yet we have no paper beween 1924 and 1929 so it is probably a short lived model born and died in those few years.

    With some lamps it is a hard call. In the case of the four burner I know the lamps exists from the photograph we saw last year. Maybe it is not period but I can't imagine anyone taking a rare tank to get creative with and it looked OK. I pondered it for a while but in the end listed it because it was better listed than ignored. I do try to make the PLC accurate but just now and then a stranger appears and gets listed even though I cannot be sure it is correct as manufactured. There is another odd one listed with AL10. It has a larger steel tank which may be a home made cobble. Well made for sure and I know it exists because it's here. A one off? maybe it is but I don't know and since the lamp exists I listed it because maybe another will turn up and when it does then it will be found in the PLC. ::Neil::
     
  21. Matty

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    I have never seen the chandelier that is being discussed. Disregarding Neil's testimony, it isn't so much that I firmly believe in its existence. I firmly believe in the possibility such a lamp could exist without having been seen in Tilley paperwork or Jim Dick's book.

    Regarding Neil's testimony: Neil is a pretty tough nut to crack. Considering Neil has had the chandelier in his hands, If Neil is reasonably convinced of the chandeliers authenticity I think it is reasonable that I at least - despite never seeing the lamp in question, in any shape or form - do indeed consider it highly likely the chandelier is authentic.
     
  22. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    He hasn't had the chandelier in his hands, Matty - that's the point - he's seen a photograph and nothing more. As I said earlier, confirmation bias in operation again... :roll: :whistle: ](*,)

    One of these chandeliers (or one like it, anyway) DOES exist - I've also seen a photograph. Of course, whether it's the same photograph, the same lamp and whether the lamp is genuine Tilley or railway company as opposed to something cobbled up to confound the gullible is all open to debate. I just prefer to apply Occam's razor (as does Neil). I've seen lots of photographs and read plenty of extravagant claims about prototypes, transition models etc., etc. not to be taken in. Shit, I've even had stuff in my hands and initially failed to spot it was a fake so pictures and sweet words just don't cut it for me...
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  23. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    As a general rule I always assume that if a company or retailer advertised a product then they had stock to sell and therefore I will list it because the probability is the product existed. That does not say there are any survivors and it is also not proof of any sales. For instance I have two seperate adverts and images of a Burmos lantern from the 1950s. I have listed it but no examples have every been found and given the number of guys hunting down lamps I suspect none were actually sold. So I am reasonably sure it existed but none were ever sold. Why is another matter. Maybe withdrawn because of a fault or because of a patent action who knows?

    In the case of this chandelier you are correct that we have only the advert and illustration but they make me sure it existed. Strange perhaps that as far as I know none have survived but then most early to mid 1920s Tilley stuff is pretty rare and maybe this one was mainly exported which would make it a very rare item as well. ::Neil::
     
  24. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Are we talking at cross-purposes here, Neil? I'm still talking about the mythical 4-arm chandelier Jeremy originally referred to above very near the top of the thread - which you mention in the PLC (as illustrated in my screen dump) - whereas you seem to be talking about the one-arm lamp thingie. Matty has derailed the thread somewhat by mentioning that when he was trying to be clever. The one-arm was included in my screen dump of the PLC only inadvertently because I needed to include your copyright notice at the bottom of the page (as required by law)…

    Screen Shot 193 - 4-arm.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018 at 4:42 PM

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