Liotard Frères "lampe portative" N°4197 . 1915 Ca

Discussion in 'Lilor - Liotard Frères' started by Michel, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    hello all
    I am happy to present this Liotard Freres from 1914/15.
    the lamp was proposed for sale with 2 kinds of burner : the "bec Atout" or the "bec Magic".
    This one is fitted with the "bec Magic" (magic burner) which have been patented in december 1913 (FR474663A)
    Unfortunately a previous owner have electrified the lamp and disassembled the burner, but no hole in the fount, nor on the swan neck tube.
    So I only need a new "Magic burner" ;-))
    The lamp is huge : 70 cm tall and a 3 liters fount and was varnished to prevent tarnish.

    1391769617-IMG_2671.JPG 1391769654-IMG_2679.JPG 1391769667-IMG_2680.JPG 1391769680-IMG_2681.JPG 1391769753-Page45__2_.JPG
     
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  2. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Nice !
     
  3. Jean J

    Jean J Subscriber

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    'Nice' is a bit lukewarm Wim, it's absolutely, amazingly beautiful!
     
  4. Claus C

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    Gratulation with another stunning lamp Michel. :D/ The garnish and the cute shade makes it a piece of art. :thumbup:
    I hope you find a donor-burner - I would love to see it in flames :D

    Claus C
     
  5. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    A very smart looking lamp! :thumbup:
     
  6. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    Hi Claus
    I would love to see it in flames, but you must find a burner and send it to me ;-))
    I only can offer you a picture with the electric mounting that there was at the arrival

    1391794505-liotard_4197.JPG

    this round globe is not adapted because this kind of burner must be heated by the bottom, so you absolutely need an open tulip.
     
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  7. Conny C

    Conny C Sweden Subscriber

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    Michel,

    It is a marvellous lamp, but I feel a bit nauseated by the look of the electric light.

    /Conny
     
  8. Neighbor Al

    Neighbor Al United States Subscriber

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    Gorgeous metal work! Always in awe of lamps from the continent.
     
  9. Claus C

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    Well electric or not - it still looks stunning. :thumbup:
    If the lamp-torturer left the burners swanneck and only took away the lower part of the burner, the nozzle and maybe even the nozzle-tube, then it should be possible to form by hand inclusive cutting a coil.
    I beleive the nozzle-head looks just like the one from the bec-lor and that is a fairly simple chunk of brass to make too.
    Did he leave the pre-heater.
    The worst part is if he took away the needle and jet to my opinion.
    Is it possible to see a photo beneath the lampskirt to see the damage :?:
    I will of course ask my local ironmonger if he has a magic-burner in his pocket but I dont think so :lol:

    Claus C
     
  10. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    yes, You are right Claus
    the dismantling has been done very properly.
    I think with you that it could be possible to redo the low part of the burner, perhaps with a U shape petromax tube ?
    the more difficult is the jet and his holder.

    1391853358-magic_cutted.JPG 1391853383-IMG_2684.JPG 1391853397-IMG_2686.JPG
     
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  11. loco7lamp

    loco7lamp Subscriber

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    Hi Michel

    lovely lamp :!: :!: :!: :mrgreen: :D :thumbup:

    Do burners for this lamp still turn up :?: , not sure if there's one near me but if there is it's yours :D :thumbup:

    A Petromax jet would do from a 250CP lamp or bigger if needed , & the thread size of M7 is easily cut to make a housing for it :D

    Stu :D :thumbup: .
     
  12. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    Hi Stu
    I think this is a "soft dream" to hope and find such a 1915 burner now, but who knows.
    By cons, the idea of doing a new one seems possible.
    A 250 Petromax tube with an old 200 CP Petromax jet (the power of this burner was given for 120 candles), why not !!
    but I have neither your tools, nor your knowledges.
     
  13. Claus C

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    1391862710-Unavngivet_opt.png

    I cant quite figure out how the gathering is in the D- and E-area. But knowing how the E-area is connected - then it should be no problem using a tube from a Petromax. The inner diameter in the U-shape would be app. 13 mm. the same at petromax almost.
    The biggest problem is the area D. I have never seen such before - looks magic :lol:
    It should be no problem making the A,B and C.
    I know where you can get the 3 mm preheater-tubes(B) and cut them the length you want. But I cant see how it is attached to the D-area.
    The A and C is just straight brass-chunks with holes and coil - no problem. Of course there would be some fettling making them look correct.

    The link below is a link to a danish site for model-builders and there you can find your brass-tubes for the preheater (B), but if you give up on danish then I am sure there is a french site alike.

    http://modelskibet.dk/group.asp?group=97

    Claus C
     
  14. Claus C

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    The link wasnt direct enough sorry. Here is the most direct I can find:

    http://modelskibet.dk/group.asp?group=302

    go to mainmenu in the left side and choose:

    1, Byggematerialer - 2, Messing - tråd, rør, profiler og plader - 3, rør.

    then you can find the profiles and dimensions under the pictures.

    Claus C
     
  15. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    Well, I continue the search and the reflection
    here is the drawing of the first patent claimed by Liotard Freres.

    1391868752-premier_brevet_magic.jpg

    the jonction between A and B is clearer.
    the C could be cannibalised or copied on another french burner.
    the 3 mm preheating tube can be bought in France, anyway, I have some problem understanding the Danish ](*,) [-X

    I don't understand very well how is built the D !!??? but this drawnig of the second patent can help a little.

    1391868821-second_brevet_magic.jpg

    I believe that one must be a little inventive. We need a jet for the gasoline and an air intake hole. No needle in this burner. If the jet is clogged, you need to unscrew a little cap under the jet and pass a pricker through the jet in order to clean it by hand (this text is in a catalogue i own)
     
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  16. Claus C

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    Ah I think I get it.
    The preheatertubes lower end is attached/soldered to the jet/vaporizer and that is screwed in the collar that you just have to press on the swanneck-tube.
    That is also possible to make.
    The preheater and the vaporizer must form a pressure-tight system in one. If the vaporizer have a outer coil, then you can screw the collar on and press on the "Petromax"-swannecktube.
    And so it will also be possible to clean if needed - you just pull off the collar and clean, when cold.
    Could it be so :?:
    I dont know about the E-area now - looks in a way solid-casted more and more to me now. :-k


    Claus C
     
  17. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    incredible !! look at what I found this week-end 4 kilometers far from my home !!!
    An never used Magic burner ! i thought the sun had knocked to much on my head

    I just have to dismantle the lower part of the burner, to clean and have a try.
    i come back later with the light.

    1399275208-bec_magic.JPG
     
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  18. Graham P

    Graham P Australia Subscriber

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    With luck like that better buy a lottery ticket quick "what a find" ..
     
  19. Claus C

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    :lol: How Lucky can you get :lol: Welldone Michel.

    Claus C
     
  20. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    hello guys
    here is the old lady running since an hour. The lamp needs very low pressure to run.
    1400666253-IMG_2960.JPG

    the fettling was quite easy : a good cleaning of the fount with soda and a epoxy treatment to be peacefull. I obviously had to redo all the seals. Then I had to mount the burner missing parts.
    here is the preheating process, very simple and quick because with the white gasoline

    1400666354-prechauffage4197.jpg 1400666384-IMG_2961.JPG

    another saved :D/
     
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  21. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Michel,

    uh, this is the easy way. Just 4km away. I think you cut corners here. What we want to see is a difficult repair job. ;-)))


    Nice lamp and find btw.
    In what kind of stores do you find these lamps and parts.
    When we are in france for holiday I can't even find the brocantes.
     
  22. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    Difficult repair ? hum !
    I think you can have a look later here ;-)))
    http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/6731
     
  23. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    I guess you will find a tank soon ;-)
    Just kidding.
    These are the best looking lamps.
     
  24. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    I think I will never find such a tank with flowers
    unic usually have bunch grappes stamping in the earlier years.
    But this is not the more difficult to repair with epoxy and wood powder
    i am more in difficulty with the fuel line :-(

    Where I find ? Euh that depends ;-))))))
     
  25. Gneiss

    Gneiss Subscriber

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    Nice lamp...

    What kind of mantle does it use?
     
  26. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    I tied a 250/350 CP mantle on the burner but I would need a ceramic fixation such as this :

    1400764474-IMG_2971.JPG

    this one is too large, I need 32 mm diameter
     
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  27. Gneiss

    Gneiss Subscriber

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    Are there no gas mantles that fit?
     
  28. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    the mantle is not really a problem
    I finally found a gas ceramique nozzle and fit a standard 250 CP mantle

    1401716742-montageceramique4197.jpg

    and here is the light

    1401716770-IMG_3022.JPG
     
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  29. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    Hi all
    A little update for this lamp.
    I was waiting since a while for this Atout burner. This burner is the first mounting for this model in 1914/15.
    The burner was in average good shape, but was missing the small round excentric. It have been redone. His work is to operate the cleaning needle whilst turning the black knob. This knob also allows to adjust the power of the flame. A very simple and well running burner.
    Was also missing the brass galery. I have finally found on on a old city gas burner.
    Here is the Atout burner (Liotard Freres)

    1465750666-bec_atout___clat__2.jpg

    And the lamp running with ;
    The left picture is as in the 1915 catalogue, but I appreciates the green tulip.

    1465750691-becatout.jpg 1465750715-becatout2.jpg
    1465750715-becatout2.jpg
    1465750790-IMG_5188.JPG
     
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  30. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    It's a splendid old lamp once again! :thumbup: :D/ :clap: :D/ :clap: :thumbup:
     

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