liotard table lamp

Discussion in 'Lilor - Liotard Frères' started by Michel, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    hello all
    here is my last find, a Liotard lamp table (i think from the 20's, but I have no paper for)
    the old ladie runs with gasoline and the burner is a "bec Noel", so the power is 150 CP.
    I have to check all the seals, they are dry but the lamp seems to be complet
    I'll post some pics when lighting

    1361383315-IMG_1245.JPG 1361383379-IMG_1247.JPG 1361383390-IMG_1248.JPG 1361383404-IMG_1249.JPG
     
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  2. Jean J

    Jean J Subscriber

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    I'm so jealous Michel, you seem to find the most amazing looking lamps!
     
  3. Conny C

    Conny C Sweden Subscriber

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    A nice find Michel :thumbup:,congrats! The same "Bec Noel" burner that´s on my Lumiere Noel lamps and also can be seen on some DBD lamps. I haven´t seen any info of this lamp in the files I have.

    /Conny
     
  4. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Nice looking lamp but I have reservations. Bec Noel is not a Liotard lamp head and with all the Liotard paper we have it is not shown from 1919 to 1937. Could this be a hybrid lamp or perhaps it is a Lumiere Noel which has had a Liotard pressure gauge fitted. ::Neil::
     
  5. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    I agree with Conny, the "bec Noel" burners have been sold to many other brands (Lilor, Lefebvre, DBD, and others)
    so, who knows ? :-)
     
  6. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    As you can see on this page Peter Bendel have a lamp with the same fount as mine.
    the burner is not the same anyway,it looks like a Bré burner.
    http://www.hytta-stuga.de/ph/read.php?1,30243,30245,quote=1
     
  7. Conny C

    Conny C Sweden Subscriber

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    Hi Michel and Neil,

    Yes I’ve seen that lamp from Peter Bendel and it looks like a Bre lamp head/burner. I’ve also seen a Lefebvre 211 lamp with a Bre burner head and I’m not 100% sure these are Franken lamps, but I think so. Your lamp seems to be the 4206 Lilor table lamp with the LOR burner exchanged to a Bec Noel. We can’t find your lamp configuration so it would probably be a “mixed” lamp.

    /Conny

    1361398609-Lilor_4206_table_lamp.jpg
     
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  8. Jean J

    Jean J Subscriber

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    If you're not happy with it Michel just send it to me.
     
  9. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    thank you Conny,
    i knew i had seen this lamp somewhere but impossible for me to remember where.
    I think anyway that all those firms have been connected, purchased and sold. we don't know very much about this industrial story
    have a look at this catalogue page of Lefebvre. the burner looks like a DBD and the fount as a UNIC, don't you think ?
    1361401146-Page24.JPG
    So perhaps Liotard could have used Noel burners on some specimens
    who knows ?

    Jean
    I believe i am going to keep it near me, "c'est la vie".
    but if I find another I promise to think to you.
     
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  10. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    I have for some time been thinking that some of these older French lamp companies were bought out or merged and that may explain lamps like this which appear to have parts from different manufacturers. It is perfectly possible that Liotard bought Lumiere Noel and used the burner heads that came with the buy out. Odd that it is not catalogued though. ::Neil::
     
  11. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    I think my intuition was not so bad. :-)
    A friend of mine sent me a trade document (catalogue Liotard, 1906) from Liotard freres, 22 rue de Lorraire, Paris about the construction of a Noel burner.
    This is an older type, but this document certifies that the Noel brand belonged to Liotard at this time.
    here is the connection, and this mounting is perhaps the first one ?.... or perhaps the customers had the choice ?

    1361435244-157829Page07.jpg
     
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  12. karli

    karli Subscriber

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    Another more light in the history darkness.

    Great lamp :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
     
  13. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    That is early Liotard paper. I don't have anything of theirs before 1915. Might it be possible to have a coy of this document? ::Neil::
     
  14. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    No problem Neil, I send you by mail.
     
  15. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Michel,

    Nice lamp but looking at the catalogue pictures I do see another burner head and "fuel line". The way the coil sits and is mounted on the lamp frame and into the burner head.

    The cat page "lampe portative"shows the "simple burner head" not the more complicated head you find on Lilor table lamps. Double valve and straight fuel inlet.

    I have doubt myself for the type of burner head you and I have on our lamps.
     
  16. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    Hello Wim
    You have the same lamp ? show us your lamp.
     
  17. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    That's a very smart looking lamp! :thumbup:
     
  18. Claus C

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    Hi Michel

    Thats an adorable lamp, and again it lets you see all the technique gadgets. Looks feminin or girlish. You seems to find lamps that touches ones heart. :clap:
    I have been seaching after a Viktorin like Connys lamp a alcool but I dont have the luck you and Conny have ](*,)

    Claus C
     
  19. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Michel,
    No not exactly I have the 210 model according to that cat page.

    My lamps are shown on the BBL forum ....
    (Yes I know.)
    At least two you can find here : http://petromax.nl/Liotard.html
     
  20. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    hello all
    here is the result of my researches in France :
    the 4206 liotard lamp is a sure value of this brand and has been produced for a long time with some variations ; filler cap, inflation system and mainly burners.
    1915 delivered with the Magic burner
    1921/23/24 delivered with Lor or Atout burner
    why not with Noel burner ? ;-)

    1361539713-lilor_4206_bec_magic.jpg 1361539790-lilor_4206_1923_atout_lor_copier.jpg

    Wim ; I know your beautifull site.
    Jean, Claus, Jeff, Neil, Karli, Conny, I hope to show you more beautiful French lamps in the weeks to come, for the pleasure of all collectors
     
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  21. Conny C

    Conny C Sweden Subscriber

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    Hi again Michel,

    I’ve seen you already got the images from the 1915 and 21/23-24 catalogues, and you are right that the 4206 lamp over the years has been equipped with three different Lilor burners , but not the bec Noel.

    Lilor was already in the beginning of the 20,s offering several of their lamps with different burner options, as they then had developed four own types of pressure lamp burners - Magic – Parfait – Atout – Lor - ( five if you include the early “Aine” burner that came along with the Lefebvre lamps from a possible overtake by Liotard [Liotard Aine] early to mid 10,s ).

    We have Liotard (Lilor) catalogues from 1915 (maybe even 1906) to 1937 and then also paperwork for Primagaz (successor), and we don’t find the Bec Noel configuration in any.

    That doesn’t mean that there wasn’t any but probably not from the Liotard (Lilor) company itself. I believe there were several wholesalers and companies dealing with products made of others (maybe licensed) and also re-branded. A typical example of this is the pressure lamp products of the Markhbeinn wholesaler (catalogue of 1927) that show several pressure lamps with burners or parts with known and unknown origin. Markhbeinn is most known for glassware products so pressure lamps would just be a side line affair to them.

    Seeing forward to any new “French goodies” from you Michel!

    /Conny
     
  22. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    Ok with you Conny, but I don't despair finding another 1910/15 catalogue :D/

    All those researches have at least the advantage of allowing to approximately date the lamp .
    1/In 1920, Liotard freres have patented the Lilor brand (third page of 1920 catalogue) This 4206 have a manometer which is signed Liotard. So we could guess the building is before 1920.
    2/If you have a serious look to the lamp on the 1915's catalogue, you'll see that the filler cap is not the "classic" Lilor cap and don't allows to inflate the fount. The inflation system is a bicycle valve (as Unic lamps system).
    So I think the birthday's lamp is between 1915 and 1920.

    1361557605-lilorbouchons.jpg
     
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  23. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    hello all,
    Here is the lilor in its original configuration with a "bec LOR" burner.
    Unfortunately, I have not been able to light it because the fuel line is clogged.
    A little effort is needed, but we're getting there

    1363631287-IMG_1363.JPG
     
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  24. Conny C

    Conny C Sweden Subscriber

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    Michel, what a beauty :thumbup: ! Looks better now with an all Lilor configuration. That lamp is now high on my wish list!

    /Conny
     
  25. Jean J

    Jean J Subscriber

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    That's a lamp to die for Michel, a wee beauty!
     
  26. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    thank you guys
    But nobody deserves to die for a lamp, even for this beautiful Lilor;-)
    Now I'll try turning on the beauty to show you the flowered lampshade
     
  27. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    I was lucky, the wire was only clogged. Some acid and a syringe have done the job !
    here is the light :-({|= and the flowers

    1363697662-lilor_4206allumee.jpg
     
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  28. podly

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    It is awesome! I really hope to find similar one some day :)
     
  29. norf

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    beautiful lamp, never seen one like it ,thanks for posting.
     
  30. Claus C

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    Very very cute :thumbup:

    Claus C
     

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