Hello everybody, Recently found a 246 to add to the (growing) collection. I've been looking at the thing tonight and found some things I haven't seen earlier in a 246. - It has a Jena Therm globe in it. Never seen this before. It looks to be made specifically for the 246. It has a similar size as a Durosil deep globe. - It has a black plastic (?) pumpknob. - there are no markings in the side of the fount (no owl) so this is a older fount. But to my (limited) knowledge these fonts came with a different cage; the one with the ears to connect the bail. Is this an early 50s model with a newer cage maybe? Thanks, Emiel
I have not seen that Jena glass before but I have one with the same knob and transfer under the tank. I also have one with a chrome knob, no transfer underneath but the owl motif on the tank. I’m sure someone on here will clarify.
Quite honestly I'm beginning to think that English lantern manufacturers were more than happy to mix and match depending on what they had lying around in the factory! Sure there was probably a spec sheet for each new model but I reckon they assembled lamps from parts that came to hand and if a distributor was happy to have a 'bitsa' lamp, it got shipped off with whatever parts fitted together. These are just my random thoughts on the matter. I have no actual knowledge apart from things I've read on this site.
It all looks fine to me, Tilley may have been using up the last of the older tanks and fitted the new design of cage to them, the Jena Tilley glass is new to me.
Colin As far as Tilley goes (an English then Northern Ireland manufacturer) I disagree with your point of “...but I reckon they assembled lamps from parts that came to hand and if a distributor was happy to have a 'bitsa' lamp, it got shipped off with whatever parts fitted together”. Tilley were very consistent with their variations of models and years. The main thing that varies between models or variations of models are the pumps (especially X246 after the pork pie”). Tilley had an overseas distribution network with “agents” for their products. Australian imports are remarkably consistent in their fittings. These agents, and I assume this is the same in Europe and UK, were also responsible for servicing and had spare parts supplied by Tilley. I’ll leave out the fracas with Tilley, Nettlefold and Kopsen in Australia but it’s here on the forum. I suspect at least some “oddities” originate in service. @Emiel Your lantern is interesting. A little while ago I wrote down, with examples from the Reference Gallery, the sequence of post-pork pie X246s. It’s here. My reckoning is you’ve got the 1949-1954 tank; with the 1954 onwards cage and bail. It may well have come out of they Tilley works like that. The older variation of the black hood (one lip), supports that conclusion. I’d say the glass is a replacement. @JEFF JOHNSON might have something to say about the pump and when it was in circulation. I would appreciate Neil McRae’s take on this lantern (@Mackburner ). Cheers Tony Edit: crossed with @JEFF JOHNSON
I stand corrected, Tony. I guess I was conflating W&B's mix and match approach with Tilley. As a wierd afterthought, I'd love to go back in time to see some of the factories they made lanterns in, and not just British manufacturers also but Primus, Optimus et Al. That would be so interesting!
The swiss civil defence had Tilley lamps in use so spares globes from germany would not be strange then.
I think Tony has it about right at 1954. Two design changes in the same year but perhaps not within a single production run means it is almost certainly from 1954. ::Neil::
The Willis & Bates / Bairstow Brothers (1985) Ltd factory in Reservoir Road, Halifax was positively Dickensian when I visited in 2005-ish
Only of the Vapalux do-nut hanging from a hook in Peter Sunderland's office... It was quite an interesting visit. I landed there just at the start of the lunch-break and not wanting to disturb the artisans within (no doubt happily munching away at the contents of their 'snap' tins), I went back into Halifax for a wander around. Returning to the factory at the end of lunchtime, once I'd managed to find the entrance, I walked through grass a foot high, thumped a couple of times on the door and it was eventually answered by a grubby brown-coated gentleman. I explained that I'd come to have a look around the lamp museum they had. He clearly hadn't a clue what I was talking about so I tried to explain that I'd heard they had a museum with an example of every lamp and lantern they'd ever produced. That brought a glimmer of understanding to his face but still no offer of entry. I then mentioned that I'd also come to buy some spare parts. At this point the transformation in attitude and interest was marked - clearly the prospect of money changing hands was the magic key, and before anyone could say 'Open Sesame!' I was whisked inside. I was led into a dark and dingy space with no windows and only one feeble lightbulb for illumination. The floor was rough and uneven; the walls appeared to have been rough-plastered and perhaps had been white-washed sometime during the reign of Queen Victoria but not since. In the centre of the space was a huge filthy table somewhat resembling a welders bench and covered with the black detritus of the ages. In the centre of the bench was a Tilley X246B - I kid ye not - a Tilley X246B! Once my eyes had become accustomed to the gloom, I perceived, seated around the walls, perhaps half a dozen scruffy individuals still munching away at their snap held in their filthy black hands. They viewed me with some curiosity until my leader, nonchalantly pointing at me backwards with his thumb, announced with heavy irony, "This 'uns come to look at our lamp museum" which, I can tell you, created no end of mirth for what seemed like half a lifetime. I was then led through a somewhat lighter area with a glazed roof, being careful to circumnavigate the many puddles of rainwater which had obviously leaked in over the past few days. At the end of this I encountered another man in a grubby white coat. This was the Works Manager, Peter Sunderland. Explaining what I wanted to see, he led me to his 'office' which was a kind of lean-to shack which had been constructed against one of the factory walls. Therein, holding up the ceiling was a wooden bearer from which hung maybe 8-10 lanterns ranging from an E41 right up to a 320. In the middle of these was 'The Holy Grail' - a Vapalux do-nut - and I explained that it was this I'd most like to see. He did deign to lift it down and I was allowed to photograph it for a couple of minutes. I think at that point I either got too close to it, or asked too many awkward questions about it or he just got bored with me and it was peremptorily whipped away from the desk-top and safely returned to its previous position hanging from the ceiling. Clearly, my allotted time with the Vapalux do-nut had expired. I then explained that I'd like to buy half a dozen of the Tilley 606 vapourisers that they made. "Oh", he told me, "we haven't made any of those for years!" At this point I was tempted to ask, 'well why the ***k are they still listed on your website, then?' but didn't. Anyway, sensing that (a) I had money on me which was (b) burning a hole in my pocket, he led me to a room which had a huge pile of lantern boxes stacked in it. These turned out to be M1B collectors' lanterns and I said I'd like to buy one. I had to tell him how much they were listed at on the website (which I did honestly, including VAT). He said that VAT didn't apply if you bought anything at the factory. I was dubious at that but not about to argue so I mentioned the list price excluding VAT. He rounded it down a bit from there to a sum you could easily pay in notes and I handed over the cash which he quietly 'trousered'. He picked up a box, opened it (presumably to make sure all the accessories were in there), resealed it and the next thing I knew I was back standing on the grass outside! If I hadn't had the M1B, still re-sealed in its box and a considerably lighter wallet when I got back home, I'd have sworn it was all some kind of strange dream - very surreal indeed!
Very enjoyable David, thank you. I don't mean to sound cheeky, but have you any photo's of the donut and the M1B? Would love to see them.
When the factory closed all the exemplar lamps and lanterns from Peter Sunderland's office were listed on eBay for £2000. I was seriously tempted and prepared to bid. Before auction end they were mysteriously removed from eBay and I supposed some 'dawn raider' had charged in with a bid they couldn't refuse. Not so - they were subsequently re-listed at a higher price but again removed (I think). I heard they'd eventually sold for £2,800 to someone unknown to me and from the South Coast. He (and it) turned up at the next Newark Meet although he was apparently embarrassed to have paid so much. That's what I remember of it anyway and it's probably near enough, give or take a bit. Maybe someone can help my memory along... Somewhere, I have a photograph of me holding it in one hand and Steve Wood's do-nut in the other. I did try to quietly wander off with them but to no avail - I didn't get very far... I can't find the photographs of the do-nut and I do still have the M1B in its unopened polythene bag within the box. It's promised to someone here but I think I put images of it in the Reference Gallery...
