Out-D L6 Pmax 150cp Copy

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by isfuzzy, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    I got this MIC steel body lantern which was sold as Out-D L6 Gasoline Lantern. Probably 2 years ago. Failed to light from day 1. Having to struggle for a week. I chucked it away. Having to see posts on 150cp pop up, I decided to give it some thought.
    IMG20200802101806.jpg
    I am not sure if I've received a lemon. But when placed side by side. Something seems fishy straight away. Notice the vaporizer heights, frame heights.
    IMG20200802101823.jpg
    This is perhaps a later version. The earlier ones were all chromed steel and still have the separate inner hood. However, cost cutting, this doesn't have an inner hood.
    Now, one can see how this will not work... Just how far the jet is from the hole?? Although I've removed the jet, the gap is way too large. I measured the gap is around 10.5mm.

    Swapping parts around from a Santrax, I determined that the main culprit was the frame height and glass height. Thus, I went on to take the frame apart. Drill out the posts and shorten them was the plan.

    IMG20200802104112.jpg
    Shorten the posts to match the Santrax.
    I do not own M3 thread die but I do have M3 taps and fasteners.
    IMG20200802110442.jpg IMG20200802130732.jpg
    Dumb moment~ I found out my screws for the plan were 10mm long. My drill bit wasn't that long. Also, I didn't have end tap. No way my screws can fit in all the way. I was getting around 5mm depth. I thought to myself~ great…
    So I thought why not cut the screw heads off? I did, but turning stainless steel… Obviously bolt cutters will work but such tiny screws. Well, I cut 3 heads off with the lathe... Proved to me that it was too much work. I then decided to try cutting off brass screw heads.


    Wait!! I then recalled I have a bunch of M3 grub screws in my electronics drawer................

    I felt so stupid, I stopped the fettle for the day and save it till the glass for the lamp arrives.. The original one was also more than 10mm too tall..
     
  2. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @isfuzzy
    That’s a crazy lantern, I agree. Meant for decoration and couldn’t be lit as it is!

    Great work underway to get it to work.

    John
     
  3. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Happy fettling!:thumbup::thumbup:
     
  4. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    @isfuzzy
    I think you are on the right track. :thumbup:
    Good luck.
     
  5. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    I've assembled the frame today with the grub screws. I'm having second thoughts about it. I don't see these brass grubs are the right candidate for the job. They were meant for electronics use for setting sensor limits and such. Not for structural use. IMG20200803104317.jpg I think @presscall will know this area very well by now. This top area where the inner hood mates with the frame is yet again different.
    IMG20200803104347.jpg
    Which meant, things aren't just plug and play. ](*,) IMG20200803104428.jpg
    IMG20200803104436.jpg
    Just not gonna happen... Here's a Santrax below.
    IMG20200803104513.jpg
    The MIC one is missing that upper lip section.

    Let me think through again...
    P.S. Notice the location of the support posts, are different on the 2 lamps.. :-({|=
     
  6. MYN

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    Great work underway to get it to work.

    With all the internal parts present from the pictures, I don't think its really meant for decorative purposes. Perhaps just less well-made. :)
    Anyway, I'm pretty sure you'd get that working somehow, @isfuzzy .
    Provided you are persistent on it of course.
     
  7. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    I felt the urge to just fire this thing up as it is with the original hood burner assembly. I fitted a worn out 150 jet, fired without a glass just in case.. I only got 1 glass, so not taking chances.
    IMG20200804103958.jpg
    IMG20200804103959.jpg
    IMG20200804104021.jpg
    I expected a black mantle from a worn and slightly leaky jet.. But i got a halo instead! :D/

    So should I leave it as it is and forget about the inner hood? :-k
     
  8. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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    True.
    Since it works even with a worn jet I’d say that’s a result. The construction mounting the J-tube in the outer hood was evidently intended to do without the need for an inner hood.

    A question, you said in your introduction this product was
    You’re using kerosene, right?
     
  9. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    @presscall I used kerosene on this from the start. Knowing it is clearly a Pmax style, no positive shut-off. It however, came with a 350cp jet installed.
    The time I received it, the pump doesn't have the air tube. The pump tube is indeed brass but the NRV seems to be aluminum? I can't say for sure.

    I might leave it as it is for now as far as function. An inner hood is costly when compared to a 500cp hood, I don't know why. What i might do next is to figure out how to install an original 150cp frame mounting plate. The preheat cup is sooooooo tiny on this lamp. In the prev post, i chucked in a full size heating cup for convenience.. I might install that one permanently there perhaps?

    Anyways, I found a page of the lamp pics in the original state. Really making me think I've received a lemon.
    全新OUT-D 多燃料CP150汽化燈附燈芯及工具 桃園區可面交 有三組 單價為新台幣2300 可另選燈袋800反光罩6 22014397817116 | 露天拍賣-台灣 NO.1 拍賣網站

    My overall thoughts for now. If anybody wants the portability of the 150cp but not wanting to pay for a real vintage Hipolito, Geniol, Pmax, Santrax..
    And don't mind for a fettle project, I think this is a good candidate? It's a steel body 150cp.. :roll:
     
  10. MYN

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    You might get the halo greatly reduced by using a jet with a smaller orifice.
    Or by mixing a small amount of gasoline into the kero.
    I'd reckon that using purely gasoline would be pretty risky.
     
  11. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    I got an idea just now after dinner.. I think this is indeed the toughest frame to attach now... [-(
    IMG20200804212145.jpg
    Well, because, the mounting screw on the tank is right smack in the middle. But the Pmax ones are offset. So here it is…
    IMG20200804212620.jpg
     
  12. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I would consider buying one myself as I like a challenge but navigating the website will be impossible for me. I would need to work out shipping costs to the UK as well.
     
  13. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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  14. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    Parts arrived but heck globe's too small:rage:

    IMG20200806212054.jpg

    Had to use my other only globe + new jet + pricker

    IMG20200806214006.jpg IMG20200806214240.jpg

    Also as expected, the 150 jets are notorious for leaking by the sides.

    IMG20200806214828.jpg

    The usual, mantle thread + copper grease to seal.

    IMG20200806221141.jpg

    And of course the halo O:)
     
  15. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I’ve now had experience of that and you’re right.

    I bought a Petromax 150cp service kit which included a new jet and needle among other bits, including Petromax branded mantles.

    All’s well with my Hipolito 150cp since re-installing the Hipolito vapouriser re-worked to take a look Petromax jet and needle. However, it seemed a good idea to buy in some spares and I tried out the new jet.

    Disaster! It spewed flame from the mating surface with the jet seat and I quickly shut it down and re-installed the original jet to put things right.

    I can detect ‘witness marks’ on the jet seat, as I’d expect, but not a continuous ring concentric to the jet centre-line, clear evidence of an uneven surface.

    DC082075-CAA6-488E-80BB-00478B104DAE.jpeg


    I’m not happy with the Petromax mantles either. Compared here with the 150cp mantles I’ve been using, sold by Base Camp.

    6F4D9FBA-8339-4501-A9EC-EFB72EA41E52.jpeg


    It’s a larger mantle when burnt in too.

    EEAF60E8-0858-4CD4-8C3E-899A78C34473.jpeg


    Lit, it under-performs ...

    D990C62B-A063-4EF6-92DF-264992086B43.jpeg


    ... compared to the mantles I prefer.

    C8C7EBE0-D755-4A1D-843F-A217EC3CFA4A.jpeg
     
  16. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    @presscall Yeah, i never liked the jets sold by Pmax, they have been always leaky, no matter how well you grind the shoulder. And if you get the shoulder and the vaporizer surfaces well ground and clean, no telling if anything will ever work. Chances are, they'll work that for the light up and will leak on the second light up again. The first Pmax 150, the jet threads actually stretched from the constant tightening to get em to seat a seal. It never did seal after the lamp runs for 30 minutes. The 2nd and 3rd jet no difference, until I sold off that bugger lamp.

    Only on my Santrax, did I buy a 3rd party jet and pricker marked OHO from Taiwan. That one was just a smear of copaslip did the trick.. Mantle problems arose but never leaked from the start. The mantle problem went away when i used the inox burner.. I don't know why.. It just works. Don't tell me the inox will mess up the brass chamber due to expansion and all. It works and i don't see any damages after over a year of use. Perhaps my next 150cp, i will try a brass burner then.

    As for this L6 lantern, i might still install a Pmax inner hood. mainly because i noticed, the integrated inner hood and hood combi has its setbacks. It was sensitive to airflow, it dims greatly when the wind blows away from the jet and or to the side of the jet. Blowing straight into the jet will make the lamp bright again. I mean its not very practical to place the lantern on a turntable and keep rotating the lantern when outdoors. What more hung up? On a swivel hook? :lol:
     
  17. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    I have had one of these for a while. Out-D Model L6 2016 I only ran it a few times but ut gave no trouble at all and gave a decent light. ::Neil::
     
  18. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    @Mackburner What was the jet size supplied on yours? I got free 350cp jet and needles on mine.
     
  19. Matti Kucer

    Matti Kucer Sweden Subscriber

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    Hi

    Exactly my experience of the pmax spare jet, it was leaking on my Santrax, but I used some exhaust mounting paste and it was ok there.
    But still not running ok so changed preston loop to one from a spare part Optimus 100N.

    What singel tied mantle to use for the 150CP lantern?
     
  20. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    @Matti Kucer I cant confirm what actually i used on mine, I bought un-named mantles which came from Fukushima, before the disaster happened.. Couldn't find the seller again after that sadly. I ordered the stock for my 1st Pmax 150 when was proven to be a dud.. The jet mounting part had expanded so much till it will no longer take any jets..
     
  21. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I bought mantles that work well from Base Camp, the smaller mantles in this photo.

    24D5FCBD-87B3-4FE4-A2DE-DEED1063AC99.jpeg


    I got three 150cp Petromax-branded mantles in a Petromax 150cp spares kit (which included the poorly-formed jet). Those mantles perform less brightly than the Base Camp ones and I won’t be using them.

    Petromax mantle

    1E782707-B84D-4542-B403-E5E7F2B39A3D.jpeg


    Base Camp mantle

    86896D2D-16DE-4C16-8178-5BC55648B554.jpeg
     
  22. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    Went to the local hardware to get these standoffs. The ones i ordered from the east hasnt arrive, it has been weeks now.
    IMG20200814174230.jpg
    Here installed
    IMG20200814174247.jpg
    The nut is there just to get the right height for the inner hood
    IMG20200814174327.jpg
    IMG20200814174341.jpg

    The height, i just based that with my working 150cp lamp…

    First light up with an inner hood

    IMG20200814183350.jpg

    Halo O:)







    And just 3 mins later

    this

    IMG20200814183713.jpg

    But i think i know this problem too well?

    To the nay sayers… inox burner

    i anticipated this would happen…

    IMG20200814184727.jpg

    Re light up

    IMG20200814200957.jpg

    its now still running outside... An hour has passed. Still bright. And yes all my Pmax style lanterns has inox burners, never came loose... :mrgreen:
     
  23. MYN

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    I guess ceramic burners just don't work well for you, @isfuzzy . Sometimes, there ain't no explanation:).
    The standoffs are indeed convenient for height adjustments.
    But the clearance between the lantern frame and the inner hood would leave an opening for some combusted gases to rise and get sucked into the furl-air inlet at the J-tube. It could result in somewhat less available oxygen for the combustion.
    You could actually close up that opening created by the standoffs so that this does not occur. That should improve the burn.
     
  24. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    @MYN Yes clay burners! The only one which worked well was on my Butterfly. That particular burner i swapped to the 500cp Pmax, actually did better than the Pmax one.. The lantern was so much easier to start and run.. I only became a fan of inox after getting a Britelyt, which the inox came as a standard issue item in their lanterns. I literally swapped the hoods around and the burners. I did unscrew the burners with the mantles intact, just so i can make fair comparisons. So i felt, if the inox works better than the clay on the 500cp, then why not on the 150cp? So yes, that was the starting point..

    Back to the inner hood to this fettle project.
    My main aim was to get this lantern to run without being too sensitive to wind direction. In the original design, there was a cobbled up burner hood assembly for cost saving. As such, the upper part of the frame too is different, missing the lip which mates to an inner hood.

    IMG20200814174327.jpg IMG20200814204735.jpg

    From what i noticed running this lantern outdoors just now. There was a great improvement running with respect to wind directions. It would almost go out in the past when wind blows towards the loop side and will burn so brightly when blown at the jet side.

    What do i think about the mixing of burnt and fresh air intake? I would look at it similar to the Hot-blast vs Cold-blast in hurricane lanterns. :doh:
     
  25. MYN

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    Well explained @isfuzzy.
    I guess you've had it as intended:).
    Its always interesting to try out some new solutions.
     
  26. isfuzzy

    isfuzzy Subscriber

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    What i like most about this Pmax clone,
    its a 150cp
    the bulk of it is steel
    I guess what the old folks told me was true indeed. Steel lanterns run cooler as oppose to an all brass. For a 150cp, i can run this for some time without becoming a pain in the hands to hold. Brass 100cp 150cp tanks are pros at making their tanks like a boiler.

    IMG20200814232457.jpg
     
  27. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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  28. Norman

    Norman United States Subscriber

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    @isfuzzy

    I agree, well done indeed.

    You post has been very interesting and the progress you've made is more then impressive.

    Thank you for sharing your victory with us.

    Cheers,
    Norman
     
  29. JonD

    JonD Subscriber

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    @isfuzzy like your desktop background. Double triode valves and maybe a power valve in the background. Is that a sign of a different hobby?
     
  30. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    Congratulations @isfuzzy :thumbup:
    I have enjoyed your post very much.
     

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