Petromax 833 - Made in Argentina

Discussion in 'Lanterns' started by Doron Papo, Jan 2, 2011.

  1. Doron Papo

    Doron Papo

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    found locally a Petromax 833 made in Argentina
    350CP lantern made in the mid 50's
    the fount was stripped from its nickel and the original globe missing.
    1293975346-833.jpg
    1293975327-833_logo.jpg
    1293974841-833_valve.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2017
  2. MYN

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    I wonder what's the reason that a 1950s Petromax would still have the appearance of a 1930s German Petromax 826? Except perhaps the pricker wheel and maybe the hood?
     
  3. MYN

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    Did some of the Germans or anyone from the Graetz family actually moved and setup something in Argentina after World War II?
     
  4. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Yes we know that an engineer from Altena spent some time in Argentina helping to set up a factory in the 1950s. I can't remember his name but Wim might. We are not sure which factory it was but possibly Aurora in BA. ::Neil::
     
  5. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    I should read my own book now and then. The PLC has this on the lantern and factory. ::Neil::

    833 300 or 500 cp lantern. Not sure of the power because Petromax 833 in European catalogues is an old Pre Altena works table lamp model. This lantern has a plastic control but a 1952 to 1956 type of support collar so I assume it was made In Argentina to the designs from the Altena works in the early 1950s. Label on collar with “Petromax Modelo No 833 Marca Registrada Industria Argentina” Stamped on the fount “Petromax Industria Argentina”

    We know there was a Petromax factory in Argentina which had some link to the parent company in Germany. Graetz KG sent out an engineer, Wupert Steden, to set the production line up in the Argentinean factory in the 1950s. I met Herr Steden at a German collectors meeting in June 2002 and he volunteered this information. I suspect the factory was not owned by Graetz and was producing lamps under licence. Only the above examples are known but I assume the factory would have made a range of lamps so there may be also be 300, 350, and 500 cp lanterns both with and without the rapid preheater which were also made in Argentina. The address above may not be the factory. The address on Kerolux lantern made by HASAG is Paseo Colón 311 so these may just be retailer warehouse units.

    The main agents for Petromax in Argentina from at least 1930 to 1950 were FANAL S.R.L. (Sociedad de Responsabilidad Limitada) of 139 Peru, Buenos Aires. From a letter dated 13 June 1939 and the 1950 Buenos Aires telephone directory. This directory also gives the factory address as 1147 Fraga. Further research has discovered that this same company, now titled FANAL Sociedad Anonima Comercial E Industrial., registered PETROMAX brand name on the 2nd March 1981 and PETROLUX brand name on 7th August 1984 I assume that all Petromax lanterns marked as “Industria Argentina” were very probably made in the Fanal factory at 1147 Fraga Buenos Aires. It is interesting to note that September 5 1980 the Petromax brand was registered to Graetz Vertrebs-GMBH, de Pforheim, Alemania. Possibly this registration was sold to Fanal the following year.
     
  6. MYN

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    I was a little curious when were the last of those Petromaxes with the older designs on their slotted frames/cages being made. As far as i know, those from the Altena factory had already changed that to a newer design frame in the 50s and 60s.
     
  7. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    It's complicated. I list all the Petromax patents in the PLC and from those you can work out more or less whem the various changes were made. If you are interested in this stuff the maybe you need to buy the book., ::Neil::
     
  8. MYN

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    Wow! That's quite some information you've posted Mack.
    The frame or support collar here seems to be having the older slotted design instead of the newer ribbed type of the 60s model from Altena.
    The Argentinean 833 unit also has an older winged-nut filler cap. I wonder it would have the E within the G in the logo as well.
     
  9. MYN

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    I would definitely buy the book if its available in my side of the world.
     
  10. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    It's available anywhere. Comes as a downloaded PDF for US$20 to me via PayPal. PM me for details
     
  11. MYN

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    Thanks for the info Mack. I'll look that up.
     
  12. nep036

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    Hello MYN, the only thing taht could look familiar to a '30 petromax is the label style on the collar. Pump, body, the 1 piece hood without the 2 screws to hold the top are familiar with all the Petromax lamps of the '40 till the mid '50, so it's coerent with the 1950 production that started in argentina. The wheel could be easily a later replacement, considering that those are parts that break or get lost.

    Nicola
     
  13. MYN

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    Thanks Nicola for the enlightenment.
     
  14. nep036

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    You're welcome, obviously my opinion could be wrong... I have several petromax lamps 826,828,829 from the beginning of the '30 to the late '70, so I can only have an opinion based on the details I can spot on my timeline of lamps.

    Nicola
     
  15. MYN

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    Since you've mentioned this, i do have a lantern with a Petromax stamped on it with an E within the G logo. Support collar frame that's similar to a late 30s Petromax but nameplate missing. Pricker wheel is similar to a 60s Petromax from Altena, Germany. And a single-piece Petromax-styled hood with the name Racek stamped on it. Some similarities to a 60s style Petromax 826. Pump knob unidentified.
    It could be a mixed up assembly, but definitely not of new manufacture. I was trying to figure out its age. The E and G logo on the fount bears no links to the Altena factory products...baffling.
     
  16. MYN

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    20180407_135305.jpg Nicola, this is what it looks like.
     
  17. nep036

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    Yes, I would date this before 54 too... obviously pump is not original and wheel looks like a replacement too. That body collar style remained the same from the beginning to 54, from 54 to 56 we have the "sicke" style (collar without any hole), then after 56 we have the classic petromax style collar that we can see in all the models till the latest ones.

    I still think that beginning of '50 is the right dating for these 2 models. From 53 we don't have anymore the E within G logo.

    Nicola
     
  18. MYN

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    Thanks Nicola. I was earlier guessing something about the same as your view. I have an Aida with the 'sicke' collar you mentioned. Not surprised about the replacement wheel. Was Racek's name still used for Petromax imports in India in the 50s? I've heared that such imports from Germany were halted during World War II and after. The pump knob is something i've never seen before...even from any available pictures on the web.
     

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  19. nep036

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    Not sure about Racek's, I don't have much information about it.

    Not only the pump knob looks new to me, but as well the pump cap doesn't look like a petromax one. Looking at the solder around it I am sure the whole pump tube was replaced at some time.

    In India they were and are really practical about lamps and donuts, so often you can see repair jobs not respecting originality... but that's absolutely reasonable considering that all the lamps we collect, some years ago, but also nowadays in certain places, were mere everyday objects meant to have a real use, so they just needed to work and spread light were needed.
     
  20. MYN

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    Racek(an Austrian i think) was a renowned importer of Ehrich+Graetz-Petromax, Hasag and other European brands in India during the 30s.

    I don't know how or when this lamp turned up in Malaysia. But i won't be surprised if someone brought it in during when we were still British-Malaya of the former British Empire. At present, i've not seen any Indian-made lanterns here. I agree to that in India, these lamps were, but to a much lesser extent now, used as real/working units especially in non-electrified areas.

    The pump attached is actually an original Petromax's if the solder masking is removed. The solder was there to seal off some leakage around the pump. This lantern has been heavily used in the past. Only the pump cap and knob are not original. Cap looks like its from a Butterfly or other similars. But the knob is a complete stranger to me. Never seen anything similar,.. even checked out those from India.
     
  21. nep036

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    Well, a knob is a knob, maybe it is not coming from another lamp but from something else... maybe it just screwed in well and so it was good for the purpose :)
     
  22. MYN

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    I reckon. I does feel effortlessly nice when pumping. You definitely won't get the thumb ache or indentation like when using a 30s Petromax pump.
    Only bother to me its not an original...:?
     
  23. MYN

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    I do wish i could get one of those 1930s Petromax 826 or others here.
    I have a couple of 60s (1961) 826.
    Petromaxes were never common here be it past or present. Possibly overwhelmed by the other cheaper clones like Butterfly, Eye, Anchor which i guess, were more affordable by the general public.
     
  24. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    For me this sounds logic:
    the main plant makes the new improved designs,
    the old parts and design are passed to sub contractors.

    A very good example can be seen in the cold war MD41 AIDA1250 lanterns.
    Old style rapids.
     
  25. MYN

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    I personally prefer the old syled rapids as compared to the latest design. Judging by the 'feel' and contruction of the newer style rapids, i think it was an improvement more for the makers than the user...cost and ease of manufacture.
     
  26. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    I don't think so. Those where the days that quality paid the bill not quantity.
    There was a lot of competition as well as development to make the most reliable and fuel efficient lantern.
     
  27. MYN

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    In some ways you could be right on regards to the reliability of the newer style rapids. It does have a simpler mechanism and fewer parts to seize/jam.
    I believe there was a patent on that a well.
     
  28. nep036

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    I think you guys are saying the same thing. The older models from the '30/40 were better quality than the more recent ones.
     
  29. MYN

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    What? You must have some reasons for this.
     
  30. nep036

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    Oh, MYN, you're saying the opposite? I thought you too were saying that the older are better :)
     

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