Petromax mantles

Discussion in 'Pressure Lamp Discussion Forum' started by Peter Perry, Sep 24, 2021.

  1. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Just an idea to tease the mind: what happens when the rod goes down?
    So the, let say, 5-7 'o clock part.
     
  2. Peter Perry

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    @WimVe what's the thinking :-k
     
  3. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    You've beaten me to it Colin,

    It may well be the case, it doesn't take much to make the mechanism catch though it's still a mystery why the control works better one way than the other.
     
  4. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Peter.. on the picture you posted of the eccentric, the little cam spigot does look worn as if it’s catching on something?
     
  5. Peter Perry

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    Thanks guys for all the suggestions and information the mystery is getting deeper as the wheel now turns clockwise but not anticlockwise locking up at the twenty minutes to the hour if I get chance the weekend I'll strip it again and take a look .
    I think your right @podbros the eccentric does look worn so a definite clue.
    I'm wondering if the centre rod screw is sitting to deep in the block if so how on earth do I adjust it without making the needle extend to far.
     
  6. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    It might be that a previous owner tried to repair it and used a variety of different parts from different models. It could be that the pricker rod is simply too long, in which case it's an easy fix.

    Although there are loads of Petromax clones, not all of them are mm perfect copies of the original design and some use longer or shorter vaporisers.
     
  7. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    The easiest fix is to file a little off the end that goes into the block. It will be less than 1mm so not too drastic.
     
  8. MYN

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    What Colin said could also be some of the reasons for the the mechanism to catch. I've experienced all of those on the Petromax and clones on more than one occasion. There was even one that was caused by my own mistake.
    On some of my other Petromax, the original Preston loop upper vaporizer part had been missing and replaced with those from other makes(Butterfly, Eye, etc). These are not exactly the same lenghts as the original and some internal adjustments of the pricker rod/needle height were necessary to make those work.
    You'd still need to strip the vaporizer down for further examination to get a clearer picture.
    But once you're at it, it'll be great if you take some pictures and document your findings here before you even re-assemble it back on the fount.
     
  9. Peter Perry

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    @MYN for sure I'll take pics and write what I find it may be of use to others with the same problem in future thanks for the information and thanks to Colin and Henry comments noted ✅
     
  10. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    If of any help - I had to shorten my Optimus 350 top rod to suit as the new needle was a little longer than the original. Maybe compare the needles side-by-side ?
     
  11. Peter Perry

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    Ok guys it's pretty clear to me these two have not been getting along .
    The pics are as it is but there's no thread showing through the block for the eccentric tip to catch on shall I just replace both parts ?
     

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  12. Peter Perry

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    More information I've just measured the slot with my vernier and there's 1.5 millimetre difference between the left and right (pic1)
    So in effect the eccentric tip is travelling uphill when turning clockwise is this right?
     
  13. bp4willi

    bp4willi Germany Subscriber

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    The exzenter must be able to run smooth in the gap of the block.
    If the gap in the block is too small, this would block normal operation. Normal operation allows 360 degree turns of valve wheel.
    Wheel arrow pointing douwn means valves is open and needle in lower park position. Arrow up is for cleanin jet and valve shut.
     
  14. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I think that the slot it is supposed to be parallel. It should raise/lower the control rods going in either direction. I have rebuilt a few of these types and never seen a slope in the gap like that. However you can take a view here - if you are prepared for it to only work in one direction - live with it, otherwise replace it. The excentre pip looks like it will clean up a bit with a gentle touch of very fine file or similar. I would suggest it is a bit "mushroomed over" as it has been put back in but not with the pip in the gap and then somebody has tightened up the nut to get it to seal. It is important to "feel" it drop in before doing up the nut.
    One of the interesting things about this game is guessing what the last owner got up to ! (and reversing some of the horrors)

    Anyway - whatever you decide to do it is not terminal and you still have a cracking lantern !
     
  15. Peter Perry

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    @bp4willi yes I don't think the gap is too small just on a slant kind of .
    Thanks for the comment.
     
  16. Peter Perry

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    @Fireexit1 thanks for your support and yes she is a cracking lamp .
    I've taken on board your comments and I think your correct it should be parallel equally across the slot otherwise the eccentric is having to work much harder hence the rounding off of the tip.
    Unfortunately for me knowing it only works in one direction is going to bug me for evermore so I'm going to have to sort it one way or another.
    Thank you.
     
  17. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    At least you now know what the problem is! I guess you can either tidy up the slot with a needle file and get the eccentric tip back in a better state or find a replacement. I wonder if this was an original manufacturing fault or heavy wear and tear?
     
  18. Peter Perry

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    @ColinG it's hard to believe that it's been a fault from day one to be honest though I could be wrong.
    I'm thinking it's had a generic one size fits all replacement at some point in it's life and suffered ever since I'll give it a go with a file then the sisal wheel to remove any burrs but think it maybe too late for the eccentric tip still nothing ventured.
    Cheers Colin
     
  19. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Besides the fact that the extender block and pin of the operating axle must be 100%, I dare to say that it will not block.
    With the pin in the slot it will work.
    Blocking of the movement up/down is due to the fact that one or both ends of the rod(s) are blocked it their travel (up or down).

    If I am correct it was in the downward movement, the 5-7 o'clock position. This indicates the opening of the bottom main valve.

    So again: operate it whole set up of the vaporizer (bottom valve, extender, needle/jet) out of the tank and eliminate the parts/options.
    Remove the valve, turn around check what the feeling is,
    remove the jet, turn and check what happens now,
    remove both and check again.

    It is not rocket science but you have to eliminate the fault options one by one.

    Besides this all, replacing the extender block and cam axle is not a bad idea.:content:

    I think you now have reached the next level of dismantling and rebuilding the main part of a petromax style lantern and you may proceed to the next level.

    Last question: did you already show the neighbour the working lantern and what was his reaction?
     
  20. Peter Perry

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    @WimVe that one or both ends of the rod(s) are blocked it their travel (up or down).
    Surely this could not be the case as the wheel turns freely 360 in one direction but not the other. If there were something blocking its travel up or down would this not happen in which ever direction you turn the control wheel?.
    Unless I've misunderstood which is quite possible.
    Yes the neighbour has seen it in action and fair play to him he was well chuffed that I'd taken it out the skip and got it working. I think he was expecting nothing more than a candle light so was staggered by the brightness and the noise .
    He said he'd messed with it but didn't have a clue and that makes two of us lol
     
  21. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Yup, very likely. It's difficult to see but the eccentric pip looks absolutely knackered!
     
  22. Peter Perry

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    @WimVe you sir are a genius I was thinking about your post all afternoon at work could it be the bottom valve?
    I got home and straight away removed the whole generator and unscrewed the valve.
    Turning the wheel in both directions it didn't lock woohoo so I removed the needle rod and on my bench grinder gently removed the point and created another one so in effect removing two or three mm from the needle rod ,put it back together and bingo it turns freely in both directions with a slight pressure between 20 past and 20 to absolutely fantastic all I have to do is put it all back together. I've also filed the slot and eccentric tip just to tidy it up .
    Thanks to everyone who has commented, advised without you guys it would probably be back in the skip.
    One very happy petromax owner.
    Pete
     

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  23. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Excellent news. What will do for your next fettle ? One lantern is never enough!
     
  24. MYN

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    That's exactly what you'd see when you really get down to it. Its pretty clear what was the problem and what the obvious solutions are.
    Now you can be sure it'll work 100% as intended.
    I think you are already a lamp guy by now. Congratulations.
     
  25. Peter Perry

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    @Fireexit1 ahh yes I already have my next lamp it arrived yesterday but with everything else it's still in its box a bialaddin 300x I hope pics up when I get chance :D/
     
  26. Peter Perry

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    @MYN thanks yes your right but it's been a right pig not sure it was obvious to me what the problem was but I guess that's just down to being a novice and now I've lost the pricking needle after putting it in a safe place :rage:just can't remember where the safe place is Grrrrrr.
     
  27. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Welcome to the club, Peter! One becomes two, becomes 4 and so it goes on. It's a fun pastime and not that expensive all things considered, plus you learn a few skills on the way.
     
  28. Peter Perry

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    Ok guys just opened lamp no 2 any thoughts suggestions, information.
     

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  29. Peter Perry

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    @ColinG thanks Colin lamp no 2 is already here :lol:
     
  30. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Get a seal kit and new pump leather. You want the version with the 1 1/4 " filler cap seal Vapalux Bialaddin Washer Kit W5 type - The Fettlebox
    You will also need some mantles. There are different to the Petromax ones as they are either pre-sized or tie up at both ends.
    On this site there are many stories of these and just about every issue you could encounter has been covered. Happy fettling !
     

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