Petromax preheater pointing straight up (no offset).

Discussion in 'Pressure Lamp Discussion Forum' started by Reinhard, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Reinhard Germany

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    Admin edit: The following discussion was split out of this topic.

    @WimVe
    Maybe the Rapid is a bit open.
    But the knob looks a little different.

    Regards Reinhard
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2019
  2. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    What do you mean by open ?
    On lanterns the rapid always points towards the coil.
     
  3. Reinhard Germany

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    @WimVe
    Picture 1 closed
    Picture 2 open

    IMG_20190609_203229.jpg IMG_20190609_203241.jpg
     
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  4. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Yes ok, but what relation is there with the straight or angle towards the preston coil ?
    So to be more precise the angle of the rapid in relation with the tank top.
     
  5. Reinhard Germany

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    @WimVe
    With the Petromax 827 with rotary quick preheated, the hole for the rapid is offset a little bit inwards.
    Seen in this light, the angle of the rapid preheated should be right.
     
  6. MYN

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    I see what you meant @Reinhard .
    We've been mostly accustomed to the angled mountings of such rapid preheaters. I'm not aware that there had actually been some that were designed to point vertically upwards.
     
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  7. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Sorry about the slight diversion, but the topic of where the Rapid Heater was pointing on my 1937 No. 827 came up earlier in this thread.

    Assuming that the Preston loop is meant to be positioned in the centre of the lantern (not offset left or right), the Rapid Heater would point vertically to the high side of of the Preston loop at approximately 9 o’clock.

    56237E8A-8EF8-458A-B701-455498BA6BC0.jpeg

    64C8DAA3-6A74-4F0C-B6A8-00B229DDEE0D.jpeg

    E54AB374-BE81-4130-91B5-C27BCEF3B0DB.jpeg

    481E2DE2-B7EC-4565-A7C6-566106E46599.jpeg

    8B3A6A70-A223-44A4-AC17-D7D22E1A64A9.jpeg
    BD205279-98EB-4CE6-A637-9980626A75C3.jpeg

    4D5FBD16-66C4-4460-B7C5-E47E255B522D.jpeg

    F7E398D9-B60C-4963-B4AD-C9F4A37F4F29.jpeg

    The gold and silver dot shows where the jet points to the Preston loop.

    99426A09-FBDA-43C1-BBF4-C78847A19765.jpeg

    Cheers

    Tony

    @Reinhard @WimVe
     
  8. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    @Tony Press,
    Thanks for the pictures.
    Well the idea was to pre heat the vaporizer so "normally" the rapid point towards the six o'clock point.
    That is where the two ends of the coil meet the vaporizer.
     
  9. MYN

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    Your pictures are very clear, @Tony Press .
    Now that's quite new to me, (I mean the offset mount and the vertical direction of the preheater).
    If it could perform the preheat function nicely, then it fits its purpose. No matter if its pointing at an angle or vertical.
     
  10. Reinhard Germany

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    @MYN
    Can you please show the hood and the inner coat?

    @Tony Press and @WimVe
    Maybe they were experimenting with the inclination angle of the rapid preheater. It was the first rapid.
    My two lamps do not look much better.

    Regards Reinhard
     
  11. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Reinhard,
    I strongly advice you to buy and read the Lahde book. There is also a patent of the rapid types:
    DE636752 1935 -1936
    Even the first ones are place under an angle.
    [​IMG]

    Just an idea: if you want to solder, with an open flame, where do you point the flame at ?

    My idea: the lantern got a kick on the rapid and was bend.
     
  12. Reinhard Germany

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    @WimVe
    I have looked at exactly these and similar drawings before. And yet I wrote what I wrote. I also have two such lamps as Tony. But they have not get a kick and they do not look much better.
    Paperwork and reality sometimes go far apart.
    I strongly advise you not always to hide behind your documents.
     
  13. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Well @Reinhard I don't hide behind documents.
     
  14. george

    george United States Subscriber

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    The Lahde book is one hellva great reference! I have a copy thanks to Wim and there is a whole ton of really good info. The math is migraine reading at best but you put that aside.
    Highly recommend!:thumbup::D
     
  15. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Wim and/or Reinhard

    Can you post a photograph of the place where the control block of the rapid heater sits on the tank on one of these early 827 lanterns.

    Here is what mine looks like. If the jet was pointing at the 6 O’clock, the tank would have a different shape at that point, and the control handle would point up toward the hood (not horizontally).

    081984CA-4F0F-4322-BD58-23E0E4E4CBDA.jpeg

    5CECA2CD-0E20-40CD-8653-790414A53B71.jpeg

    81BFB5EF-EC88-42B6-8883-8AB1AC2CD682.jpeg

    E85C32F3-87BF-4ADD-BB9B-3A171FC9C128.jpeg

    86FC11EF-C2A8-4298-B150-C4E9D0DF06DD.jpeg


    Best regards

    Tony

    @WimVe @Reinhard
     
  16. Nils Stephenson

    Nils Stephenson Founder Member

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    I have no experience with Petromax lamps, but the Swedish models have the rapid assembly aligned so the tube is pointing towards the larger section of the vapouriser (as mentioned by Wim). To accomplish this the mounting hole is not level with the top of the tank. Maybe the top of your tank has been bent at some stage? I would also expect the control wheel to be aligned at right angles to the centre line of the tank, not as it is now.
     
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  17. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    It seems to me that both the rapid heater control block and the generator control block are not at right angles to the centre of the tank. This lantern has obviously had a hard life and been worked on.

    I'll search for paperwork on this model.

    Cheers

    Tony

    @Nils Stephenson
     
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  18. MYN

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    @Tony Press ,
    The only lantern I've came across which has a rapid preheater nearly as vertical as your unit is @Trojandog 's Aladdin-Petromax(1937...1939?):-
    1463224290-20160514_1025_opt.jpg
    I can't exactly see clearly (only appeared to me) but you could ask @Trojandog if that's the case.
     
  19. Kari Finland

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    Hello, first post here!

    At the moment I am fettling a Petromax 827 what I believe is from 1938. The rapid heater alignment looks like this...

    IMG_20190612_165718.jpg IMG_20190612_165727.jpg
     
  20. MYN

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    Just another lookup back on @phaedrus42 's post back in Dec 8, 2016, I found some similarities between this and what's on his lantern:
    1481555559-pmax827-running.jpg 1481228873-pmax827torch.jpg
    Its either not very common or I was just not observant enough to notice this variation.
     
  21. george

    george United States Subscriber

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    I have an 828 from around 1936, and quite frankly I have never noticed any difference between my 1936 828 and my 1960s 828. They both appear to be aimed at the "heart" of the Preston ring....:-k
    Could the Rapid lighter have taken a whack at one time that caused it to change the angle?:whistle:
     
  22. george

    george United States Subscriber

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    Thinking about it, Wim has something: where do you point the flame if you want to solder something? You wouldn't point it "away" from the object.:-k
     
  23. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    I herewith present to you, pictures made by George of his Petromax 828 (around 1936) :

    Px 828 rapid pos George Burl (1) web.jpg
    Px 828 rapid pos George Burl (2) web.jpg

    Px 828 rapid pos George Burl (3) web.jpg
     
  24. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    If I compare the pictures of George with those of Tony I think I see deformation, on the outside pushed down and on the inside material is pushed up:

    Rapid position 1.jpg
     
  25. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Wim

    Yes. There is indeed the appearance of deformation in my tank, consistent with the fitting having been moved, at the point where you have directed your yellow arrows. There are also ‘post factory’ additional lead washers as well.

    It will take me a while to work on this lantern, but I’ll get it going eventually.

    Cheers

    Tony

    @WimVe
     
  26. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    This is what I love about our forum, people all over the world with knowledge and expertise that will resolve the issues, in this case the angle of the preheater. Fascinating to read and looks like you’re getting to the bottom of it.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  27. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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