Solex 252 Italy

Discussion in 'Italy' started by Mackburner, Oct 12, 2010.

  1. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    We don't know who made Solex product so all I can say is they are Italian because that is stamped on the lamps. There seems to be a small range of lanterns and a do nut and all appear to be Petromax copies or possibly made under licence.

    This lantern is a small 100 cp kerosene lamp sort of like a Petromax 900. It was in very rough condition when I got it and has taken me hours to make it work. I had to take the pump tube out to fettle the check valve and I also had to resolder the valve to the tank. Tricky job but this valve does not screw out so a fresh solder job was the only way. Cute little beast though and works quite well.

    1286894234-Solex_252_01.jpg

    1286894370-Solex_252_02.jpg 1286894487-Solex_252_03.jpg 1286895315-Solex_252_04.jpg 1286895331-Solex_252_05.jpg
     
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  2. vega

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    Interesting lantern
    Solex is an Italian carburator manufactor that is part of Magneti Marelli
    They had been making carburator for fiats ever since I can remember(it would make sense they were the ones that made the lanters)
     
  3. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Damn I should have made that connection. Some English cars used Solex carbs as well and I knew that. Thanks for this it has to be right. Brand names are registered and copyright so it has to mean they wee made by the same company. ::Neil::

    P.S. Just had a look at Solex and they were always a French company not Italian. Mind you the brand would have been still copyright by the French company so these lamps, if they were made in Italy, had to be by an Italian subsiduary company or at least with licence from Solex France. ::Neil::
     
  4. vega

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    Sorry to have to correct you but they have an assambly plant in several contrys France included
    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneti_Marellihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneti_Marelli
    and so it's confusing
     
  5. vega

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    link doesn't work
    Any way from wikipedia
    Las líneas de negocio incluyen: Iluminación (sistemas de iluminación delanteros y traseros), Control motor (gasolina, diesel y sistemas de control multi-combustible, caja de cambios robotizada Selespeed), Sistemas Electrónicos (grupos de instrumentos, sistemas telemáticos, cuerpos computarizados), Sistemas de Suspensión (sistemas de suspensión, amortiguadores), Sistemas de Escape y de Competición, donde Magneti Marelli desarrolla sistemas electrónicos específicos para competiciones, principalmente en la Fórmula 1, Moto GP y en el Campeonato Mundial de Rally. Magneti Marelli posee las marcas: Carello, Automotive Lighting, Siem, Cofap, Jaeger, Solex, Veglia Borletti, Vitaloni y Weber.

    La sede central de Magneti Marelli está en Corbetta (Milán) y cuenta con 53 plantas y 31 centros de investigación y desarrollo en Italia, Francia, Alemania, España, Polonia, República Checa, Rusia, Turquía, EE. UU., México, Brasil, Argentina, China, Malasia y Sudáfrica
    or may be they started french and were bougth out
    by the Italians
    Saludos
     
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  6. vega

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    More research
    History of the brand
    1905: The company was created by Maurice Goudard and Marcel Mennesson, both graduates of the École Centrale Paris.
    1973: the carburetor division is taken over by Matra, and later by Magneti-Marelli, then by Renault and Motobécane in 1974.
    1983: Motobécane is bought by Yamaha and becomes MBK.
    1988: production in France, at Saint-Quentin, ends.
    Circa 2001 production ceased in China and restarted in France.
    In June 2004, the mark "Solex" was bought by the French group CIBLE
    In 2006 CIBLE launches the e-Solex, designed by Pininfarina and produced in China (400 W brushless motor, 35 km/h, autonomy of 30 km) [1]
    In 2009, CIBLE launches the e-Solex 2.0, a new version with a lithium-polymer battery
    Solex, Velosolex and Solexline are trademarks, property of SINBAR SARL [2]
    The trademark "VELOSOLEX" is the property of Velosolex America LLC, who markets the Velosolex worldwide.
    very confusing brand
    So if it says Italy may have been made in 1973?
    I give up
     
  7. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Great stuff. I got that Wikepedia page in English.

    Magneti Marelli S.p.A. is an Italian company which deals with development and manufacturing of systems, modules and high-technology components for the automotive industry. A subsidiary of Fiat Group, it has 32,000 employees and a turnover of 5.4 billion euro in 2008.[2]

    Headquartered in Corbetta (province of Milan), the company includes 77 manufacturing plants, 11 R&D centres and 26 application centers in Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Poland, Czech Republic, Russia, Turkey, United States, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, China, Malaysia, and South Africa.[2]

    Magneti Marelli was founded in 1919 as a joint-venture between Fiat and Ercole Marelli, and was named as F.I.M.M. - Fabbrica Italiana Magneti Marelli; the first plant was established in Sesto San Giovanni near Milan, Italy. The company started as a magneto and electrical equipment manufacturer.

    Magneti Marelli currently deals with intelligent systems for active and passive safety of vehicles, as well as in the powertrain area.

    The business lines include automotive lighting systems, powertrain control systems, electronic instrument clusters, telematics systems, and computers, suspension systems and components, exhaust systems, and motorsport, wherein Magneti Marelli develops specific electronic systems for Formula One,[3] Motorcycle Grand Prix and the World Rally Championship.[dated info]

    Sub-brands of the company include Carello, AL-Automotive Lighting, Siem SpA, Cofap, Jaeger, Solex, Veglia Borletti, Vitaloni and Weber.

    Seems it is an Italian company after all which does make sense. If Solex was taken over as a brand in 1973 then we have to assume the lamps are after that.

    I am very pleased with this little bit of basic research. It adds to the knowledge and better still dates the lamps. ::Neil::
     
  8. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Hmmm. OK further thoughts and there is a problem. Magneti Marelli took over the brand SOLEX in 1973. BUT the catalogue I have for Solex lamps is dated to the early 1930s. This is part of the archive recovered from the Primus factory by Bo and fortunately for us they date stamped most of the paper when they reveived it. This catalogue is not dated but given all the rest was from the period 1930 to about 1940 I am in no doubt the catalogue is early 1930s. It is therefore impossible that Magneti Marelli made the lamps. It has to be that A. Boffelli & C was a part of the French Solex company making carburettors in Milan for the Italian motor tade in the 1930s and indeed it may well be that it was this French carburettor business in Italy that prompted the take over/buy out in 1973 by the Italian company.

    ::Neil::
     
  9. vega

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    Well tha could be it
    It has been real interesting coversation
    Saludos
     
  10. Juan

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    I guess that, before to say that Boffelli was a subsidiary of Solex you need evidence that they produced the solex carburetors and the Velosolex.
    Why?
    1. Because Solex was also a brand of wax in Italy and not necessarily owned by the French carb maker. So, it could be registered also for somebody else to make lanterns under a different register class, even if the lantern burner is a sort of carburetor.
    2. Boffelli used to make also electric light devices to use at home or offices. Bo's catalog specifically says "kerosene gas appliances division" and I saw on ebay a catalog of the electric light division and see the light projector on this page: Museo La Luce . I mean: Boffelli used to make light devices of any type, but nothing related to carbs.
    3. The Solex logo used for lamps by Boffelli is different than the ones used for carburetors.
    4. A. Boffelli was established in Milan at Piazzale Perugi 5 while the italian facilities for Solex carbs were located in the '30s, and perhaps still are, in Turin at Via Nizza 133 (Neil, see an ebay auction I sent to you by mail). It seems obvious as Fiat is from Turin (Fabbrica Italiana di Automobili Torino)

    Perhaps they used the Solex brand under license or perhaps they owned the Solex brand for this class.

    Juan
     
  11. Wim

    Wim Subscriber

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    Product names can be misleading! Mostly they are protected in that no other manufacturer can use the same brand name for an equal or similar product. In Belgium, we have a Primus brewery (I doubt they have anything to do with stoves & lamps 8) ) and one can buy Primus fridges, freezers, laundry machines etc. (again, nothing to do with beer, stoves & lamps ;) ). My sister was Primus Perpetuum at the music academy and she doesn't drink beer... :lol: :lol: :lol: (sorry for this silly remark gents :oops: ). So, I strongly doubt the French Solex mopeds have anything to do with the Italian lamps.

    Regards all,

    Wim
     
  12. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    I doubt that the Solex "cyclomoteurs" have something to do with Solex lamps, but ...!!?? But, in fact, many cars for years 1940-1950 were equipped with a Solex carburetor in France.
    Solex lamps were produced in Milan and sold by Ditta E Tabasso Volta, Via Carlo Porta in Milan.
    In a catalog of 1937, it is written "autarchica produzione".
    I have a Solex lamp 200C, it has a loffelrapid, so I think it dates back to 1930's or just after, the 1940's
    Michel 1312909962-solex200Callumee2.JPG
     
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  13. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    I suspect the Solex catalogue I have is earlier than 1937. It was copied to me by Bo so would have come from the Primus works and most of that paper is dated from the early 1930s. I think I would like to see your catalogue if you tink it might be different to my copy. Does yours have the rapid preheater lanterns listed? They are not in the catalogue I have.

    If possible I would also like some bigger images of your 200 please because up to now I have not seen a Solex with a rapid blow torch pre heater

    ::Neil::
     
  14. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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  15. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    So I have. Must be an age thing. I should have recorded that but I don't seem to have done this yet.

    Ah yes I see. That 1937 paper is not a catalogue. That is an instruction sheet for the lamps and I do have a copy of that here. ::Neil::
     
  16. Claus C

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    I have seen the Solex before and on the nametag sitting on the cage it says "Solex. Made in Pakistan" so there must be a manufacturer who took over the brand or they have the same story as the Primus/Høvik behind. The fount was of course marked "Solex".

    Claus C
     
  17. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    The Pakistan made Solex 555 is a 350cp lantern which appears to be later than all the Italian examples I have seen. This one has a ribbed support collar and that was patented in 1956. The implication is that Italy production is 1930s-1940s and Pakistan 1960s and later. ::Neil::
     
  18. onafest

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