Soot deposit on glass chimney mystery

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Rescuer, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. Rescuer United Kingdom

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    I am an absolute beginner with kerosene pressure lanterns but have had some success within the past month.
    I recently bought 2 Sea Anchor Kerosene Pressure Lanterns from eBay. Same model. Both work fine. I light both of them using the rapid starter or the ignition device where a jet of kerosene spray is lit up and is directed towards the vaporizer. I use the same kerosene in both. One lantern produces soot around the glass chimney every time I light it up! But the other lantern leaves no soot at all on its glass chimney! It is completely clean! I have emptied a litre of kerosene from the tank of the faulty lantern through a fine sieve and there are hardly any sediment particles in it as the photo shows.
    Should I pour in white vinegar and leave it overnight to clean the kerosene tank of the faulty lantern ?
    Should I disassemble the red wheel mechanism to try to clean the tube leading to the jet?
    Has anyone successfully solved this sort of problem? I enclose some photos. I would be very grateful for you guys helping me get to the bottom of this mystery.

    Soot deposit on glass chimney.jpg Sediment particles when kerosene from tank was passed through a fine sieve1.jpg
     
  2. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Welcome aboard!:thumbup:

    That is an odd problem and not one that I have come across before with any of the Petromax type of lanterns.

    However, blackening of the glass usually occurs when some part is slightly loose, which leads to the fuel and air mix is not burning properly and there will also be a strong smell of paraffin/kerosene, so check that all parts are properly tightened and clean, because a clean lantern always works better.

    Then I would try preheating the lantern with meths, assuming that there is a meths trough in that lantern, then let us know the results.
     
  3. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    :-k This is probably an issue to do with the air/fuel mixture produced by one of the blowlamp preheater thingies - either too much fuel due to an enlarged jet or too little air due to some sort of restriction somewhere. You could dismantle them/it and give it/them a good clean - also the rest of the lanterns while you're on.

    My simple solution would be to foist the Sea Anchors onto someone else (or just chuck them in a skip). Then buy yourself two proper lanterns - Bialaddin or Vapalux.

    P.S. If you stick around here long enough, you will realise that's partisan advice and I'm just gently teasing you! ;) :lol: Welcome to the forums... :thumbup: :D 8]
     
  4. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    G'day @Rescuer and welcome to the forum.
    I have had the same problem on 2 lanterns and in both cases the jet in the rapid starter was worn (oversize). Neither could be fixed so I just use methylated spirits for a soft start.
     
  5. cmb56

    cmb56 Sweden Subscriber

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    @Rescuer
    I can give you the advice to use copper slip on the treads of the nipple/jet, the ceramic burner and on the treads beteen the metal burner holder and the U-tub.

    You can also put some on the joint between the upper and lower parts of the vaporizer.

    The copper slip make these parts seal better so you do not get leaks there and it will be much easier to remove the parts in the future.

    Regarding most Chinese lanterns including the Sea Anchor, most of them are made by chrome plated steel.

    They will rust if you do not take care of them each time you have used them.

    Wipe them dry after use and store them dry and you will have some nice lanterns.

    Sea Anchor is now the largest brand in China since the Anchor factory closed down.

    The Anchor brand has now been taken over by Sea Anchor and is now the same lantern.

    The original Anchor lantern had some better quality than the Sea Anchor but you still have a pair of nice lanterns if you look after them.

    Michael
     
  6. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    Welcome @Rescuer from Australia.
    Looks like it’s running rich, to much fuel to air mix.
    As said in earlier posts maybe the jet orifice is oversized.
    Hope you sort it.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  7. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Check if the jet is thight when hot.
    If not thighten, when hot.

    oh and welcome to the forum !
     
  8. Rescuer United Kingdom

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    Hi everyone,

    I am very grateful for such quick responses to my issue. I thank you all. I also thank you for your warm welcome to your forum.

    I have disassembled the rapid starter into its individual parts. See photo. I inserted thin bicycle brake cable in the long tube that dips into the kerosene and found no visible gunk in it whatsoever. I then checked the tiny holes in the jets with the needle tool that is supplied with the lantern. There does not seem any obstruction like fine black particles.

    The other lantern produces a blue almost invisible flame in contrast to the faulty lantern which produces a conspicuous yellow flame especially at the upper half of the flame.

    I remember learning about the bunsen burner in my chemistry classes at school. This burner is a standard heating source in chemistry labs and it will produce a yellow flame when the hole at its side is shut with a sliding metal curved seal but when the hole is partially opened it produces the typical bunsen burner blue hot flame.

    So based on this information, I would say that the reason why the faulty lantern is producing a yellow flame which causes the soot is because there is no air or far too little air reaching the pressurized kerosene before it is ignited. Same as in the bunsen burner yellow flame.

    I have noticed that the rapid starter base has a central hole which is connected to the pressurized kerosene in the tank by a metal tube approx. 11 cms long. But the rapid starter base also has a tiny hole in the 12oclock position (as seen in the photo) for the air on top of the kerosene in the tank to mix with the kerosene in a very small chamber just before it is ejected through the second metal case with a central hole in it.

    So it is possible that the cause of the problem is that I have overfilled the kerosene tank with too much kerosene because this would lead to too little air being available above the kerosene in the tank.

    Still I am puzzled because I remember that I filled both lanterns by about one litre of the same kerosene. The difference in kerosene volumes in the two lanterns may be 50 to 70 mls. But maybe this small difference could be causing this problem.

    So I am going to make an experiment when I have the time.

    I will fill the kerosene tank of the faulty lantern with just 800 mls of kerosene and pressurize it to the red line on the pressure gauge and test the rapid starter to see whether a blue flame is produced.

    If it produces a blue flame, that would prove that my hypothesis is correct, I will then empty the tank and refill it with 900 mls of kerosene this time and see what happens. I will keep you informed as to the results but it may be some time.

    Regarding other possible causes...
    It may be possible that the tank which came with this lantern is rusty or gunky because tiny black particles appeared every time I emptied the tank as my previous photo shows.

    It is unlikely that the nuts of the rapid starter on the faulty lantern are loose because it took great effort to unscrew them!! But I will still buy the copper slip / grease because it is a very good idea and it is cheap enough.

    If in the end I will need to buy a new Petromax-type rapid starter or a new tank for my Sea Anchor lantern, could you tell me who will sell me and despatch these items to England ? I tried contacting the Chinese Sea Anchor factory through their form on their website twice, about buying spare parts for the Sea Anchor but no replies have come through. I have checked my Spam folder as well! No replies.

    One thing that attracts me to these Sea Anchor lanterns. At around 45 GBP including delivery from China to England, they are exceptionally good value for money as compared to other lanterns that emit high intensity light. And they do emit light for 8 hours nonstop as is claimed if you keep on pressurizing the tank every 1-2 hours because I checked this. What I would like to do in the future is learn how to reduce the intensity of the light emitted from the mantle. I think if I reduce the pressure arbitrarily by turning the pressure gauge side screw, the mantle will emit lower intensity light but it may suddenly erupt into flames! I am thinking of using the pressure lantern in the long winter evenings hours before going to bed. If the light is too bright, it is going to make it difficult for me to go to sleep because the brain will think it is still midday. If any of you can enlighten me regarding how to have constant reduced light from a Petromax-type lantern, I would be most grateful. Also I think it would emit light for more than 8 hours under reduced lighting because less kerosene should be used up.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  9. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    @Rescuer
    The second image shows where and what the problem is. There should be another hole for air directly opposite the one shown in the image, check-out the good one and you'll see what I mean. Giving the part a good clean with fine wire wool may reveal the missing orifice. On the other hand, it may be a manufacture fault. Check out the Magnalux & Anchor price list section at www.base-camp.co.uk for a replacement.

    To reduce light output and make your fuel go further, change the jet for a 350 cp. one.

    Henry.
     
  10. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Like most pressure lanterns these are not really adjustable other than by reducing the pressure. As Henry suggests you may find fitting a 350cp jet will help but if the lamp is working as it should then even 350cp is seriously bright. If you really want a low level lantern then try a Tilley X246B. It is a rare one of those that staggers up to over 100cp. ::Neil::
     
  11. Rescuer United Kingdom

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    @Henry Plews

    Thank you Henry for solving the mystery to me. So there should be THREE HOLES in the rapid starter base!! I have checked and scraped with a sharp knife the 6oclock area with reference to the second rapid starter photo. There is no third hole! So I will just have to replace the entire rapid starter mechanism because base-camp online store do not seem to sell a rapid starter base on its own. If anyone can sell me a Petromax-type rapid starter base with 3 holes, please let me know.

    @Mackburner

    Thank you for your suggestion.

    @cmb56

    I would like to buy some copper slip NOT copper grease for the following reason: I quote from a bike forum on the internet:

    “Copper slip is an anti-seize compound and as it doesn’t conduct electricity it doesn’t set up a galvanic cell and cause corrosion as many think. In industry copperslip is used usually in high temperature applications where normal grease compounds break down or dry up, so is a bit of overkill on a bike, but works fine. Whether you use copperslip or another product I can’t see it really mattering, they all work the same, but in any case don’t use too much as the screws can come loose easily, especially in high vibration applications, I cringe when you see grease or copperslip oozing out from bolt or screw heads. Screw threads rely on friction to maintain torque.”

    But amazon and ebay seem to be advertizing copper slip and grease at the same time e.g. "Carlube Multi Purpose Copper Slip Grease Anti Seize Assembly Compound 20g Tube". So I assume that they are selling copper grease and not copper slip.

    So could you or anyone tell me where I can buy copper slip NOT grease on the internet please ?
    Thank you everyone. You have been a really great help!
     
  12. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    @Rescuer

    Again at Base-Camp, check out Petromax & Hipolito lantern spares you'll see that they sell various rapid pre heater components separately but don't rush in just yet. Your Sea Anchor may be a Petromax clone but there may be small but significant differences, e.g. whitworth thread instead of metric. I'm away this weekend so can't check that Sea Anchor & Petromax pre-heater parts are compatible. If anyone knows, please feel free to chime in.

    Surely there's more than one company making copper based grease ? As far as I know, "Copper Slip" is the brand name of one company's product. (Not all vacuum cleaners are Hoover, not all excavators are JCB's etc. etc.).

    Henry.
     
  13. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    From memory, one brand name is 'Copa Slip' although I can't recall the manufacturer's / retailer's name. I last used it many years ago on the back of brake pads as an anti-squeal measure. Clearly, it's useful for high temperature applications and, as has been pointed out, 'less is more' i.e. a minimum smear is sufficient...
     
  14. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    Just a simple question: since one lantern is not giving the black bandana: what is the difference betweethe two rapids ?
    If the rapid is the cause at all.
    Rapid jet heads (?) have two or four holes for the air to mix with the fuel uner de top cap.
    All holes must be open and not enlarged by the use of the wrong pricker.
    Also the small filter and the fuel pickup must be clear.

    Generally:
    These lanterns are machines, operating with fuel under pressure and tehrefore it is handy to know what happends by studying the manuals the functions.
    Normally shoot can be removed with a towel. Mind you use yours and not hers.
    If shoot is removed start lantern with the spirit cup, if not there, buy one.
     
  15. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    Copper slip/ copper grease is the same thing. All motor factors and Halfords will sell some brand of brake pad anti squeal copper compound. It is a very effective non setting high temp thread sealer. ::Neil::
     
  16. cmb56

    cmb56 Sweden Subscriber

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    @Rescuer
    I will agree with Neil that any auto part dealer will have such past/slit/grease.
    The brand I use is CRC Copper Past but I suspect that all brands are more or less equal.

    Michael
     
  17. Alby

    Alby Subscriber

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    With regards to spares and parts ..go to

    www.hurricanelamps.co.uk

    Internet site and Chinese sea Anchor parts .. Carl Fuller is very helpful and I buy goods
    from him .. top bloke and you can tp him or E mail him.. I have had iffy dealings with base camp .. whilst our lamp folk recommend this company of course , please decide for yourself I always use Carl for all my parts now .. good luck:thumbup:

    Alb
     
  18. Graham P

    Graham P Australia Subscriber

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    Just a couple of thoughts ,
    Would pre heating at a lower tank pressure be worth a try (less pressure = less fuel)
    I have always used Nickel anti seize (it is better at higher temp rating than copper) .
     
  19. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Graham P

    What nickel paste do you use?

    Tony
     
  20. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    @Tony Press I use a nickel anti seize paste as well.
    This is the stuff.
    2A1E3B0F-53CE-4F4A-BF66-4D8055FDEEBA.jpeg

    I find it works very well.

    Cheers
    Pete
     
  21. Graham P

    Graham P Australia Subscriber

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    I have had this can (Loctite) since about 1995 the paper label is a bit hard to read but give protection to 2600F(1427 C) from seizing or galling (Image will not load)
    .Modern specs of current products :- Loctite Anti-Seize | What Type Do You Require?
     

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