Hi Forum I am also having problems with my X246 burners. I have two lamps and I'm trying to get one running! - One burner has an air button missing. Any ideas about sourcing a replacement? -The other burner had a metal (lead) crimp but it melted. There seems no way now to fix it to the hood? -Alternatively, any ideas for a good eBay seller of burners. New or second-hand? Thanks
Hi Sam the burner on the left is from an X359, a different lamp to the x246 and the hood is different.. as you have two air buttons I presume you have the hood from the X359? The trouble is that those air buttons are scarce Would it be possible for you to put up some photos of your lamps, with the hoods in place please ? That way it’s easier to see how to find a solution? Thanks pb If you can source a nut from an x246 burner it might get you going? this is the standard burner from an X246.. Here is a rough X246 hood.. the burner on the right is from a later Tilley lantern and you need a sleeve with a split pin but you may be able to rig something up ?
The burner on the left does not have the correct air buttons for an X246 burner, unless it has been fitted with a hood from an X359. A photo of the lantern would help. Also, a lead crimp won’t last in the burner. It should not have been there. Edit: crossed with @podbros. Tony
Hi, here are my two lanterns. The one on the left has the X359 style hood. The one on the right has the X246 style hood. For the left one maybe the X246 style nut will get me going. I am not sure how to fix the other burner with the missing crimp. There is no hole for a split pin. I could drill one or maybe some crimped copper pipe?
Thanks @SamLamp interesting that the burner for the lamp on the right (X246b) doesn’t have a hole Tilley were always trying to save money at this point and may have decided to use a spring clip? It may have looked like this? Only surmising here Even a piece of alu tube would do if it’s thick enough ? other members nearer to you may know of a source or you could contact base camp stoves and speak to Mike but that will take a while? www.base-camp.co.uk have you had the lanterns going? regards, pb (apologies for the bad sketch)
I would contact TW Sands in Melbourne to see what they have. They might have the correct air button for the 359. As to the other burner, I’ll check what I’ve got in the shed, but if it’s in very good condition (not burned out at the threads) you could swap burner arm tubes. There again, Bernie at TW Sands would advise what they have. Leave a message if no one answers the phone. Cheers Tony
In relation to the X359 air buttons mentioned in the above quote, I agree and further advise that they are not the same size as the similar looking ones on a Bialaddin lantern or a Tilley X458.
@SamLamp I don’t have any of those X359 air buttons. If there aren’t any at TW Sands, you may have to try The Base Camp in the UK. I don’t have a Tilley burner like the one on the right of your photo, either… Best regards Tony
@podbros your drawings of the spring clip are accurate. I have definitely got one lantern (possibly two) somewhere in the pile with this type of burner.
Thanks Henry.. i remember seeing the ‘castellated’ spigot before somewhere im pretty sure ive seen the sliding bush in an alu alloy as well as the brass ones the sketch was inaccurate.. I missed off the stepped part of the bush that holds it into the hood shouldve looked like this
Ian, whilst I agree about the size difference betweeen Bialaddin and Tilley, I can't agree about the air buttons from a X458 also being a different size. There are two different styles of air button on what is basically the CH1 Conversion Hood which was fitted to X410A, X458, X460 and also AL620 and even though neither type are readily available today, I'd like to put the record straight as to what fits what. Irrespective of hood style e.g. as on AL8, PL53, X359 as well as those mentioned above, the hood diameter is the same i.e. 3.5" / 90mm +/- Given that the air tubes are the same length it stands to reason that any style of air button can be fitted no matter the style of hood. In this image, the burner on the left is from my X410A dated November 1961 with exactly the same air buttons as my X359 dated September 1959. The one on the right is from an AL620 (same as X458 etc.) dated August 1968. It is easy to see that the AL620 burner is of the newer design with the no doubt cheaper to make air buttons. Newer type with steel gauzeAs is perfect fit in X359 hood As is the air button usually associated with a PL53
Interestesting post, @Henry Plews. I can't recall ever seeing that "newer" style of air button: I'll have to rummage through my box of buttons to see what's there. Cheers Tony
@SamLamp Well… it does turn out that I do have a burner like the one you posted. I found it in a box of used Tilley burners. I would send you the clip but it’s rusted to fragility and won’t last being fitted and re-fitted. But I supply a photo of it on graph paper. The steel wire is 1.4mm. Grid of paper is, weirdly, 6mm square. Interesting, too, is that the button on this burner is aluminium. Cheers Tony
In case anyone need those clips, they are available new from many places. Just look for 'hairpin retainer clips' as they are so-called.:-
@Tony Press after looking at a few examples of X410, X410A, X458 etc. in the reference gallery, I'm not sure I should have referred to the different types of air buttons as "older" and "newer" as there is evidence that they were - for a short while - concurrent. Check out Neil's @Mackburner example of a "new in box and has never been fired." 1958 X458 which has what I referred to as the "newer" air buttons yet is a year older than my 1959 X359 1958 Tilley X 458 "Flounder
@Henry Plews Thanks for your investigation. That’s good information. I did rat through all of my NOS and used air buttons , and have none like that type. Cheers Tony
Thanks @MYN i know them as ‘R’ clips but a slightly different shape.. there are similar ones for injectors @Tony Press there is also a longer version .. this is from an AL15 dated 12/60
Note: In this post I will refer to air buttons as air silencers interchangeably and of course the more common standard burner ends are gallery bushes. Thanks Henry for initiating a discussion on the air silencers and correcting my comment on the X458 size. I wish I had said style, anyway, I had my reasons and had done some due diligence but nothing Tilley is ever straightforward. I agree, Henry, that these various air buttons that you have mentioned are all generally interchangeable (3/8” BSF thread) which may prove useful for someone missing the harder to find X359 scarce air buttons. IMHO though seeing a button type PL53 style air silencer on an X359; Nah, not a good look. One important aspect from this discussion is that maybe there is, after all, a source for the brass type X359 which appears on the X359 model as well as some others. Kitelamp.com in their Tilley pages have for sale a set of 'three burner screws for X458'. This had me puzzled as to why it was not advertised as an X359 and further when I checked a W. F. Shiveley / Tilley 1960 price list, the X359 and X458 air buttons are listed quite separately leading me to believe they were different. Clearly with hindsight the latter entry in the W. F. Shively price listing is highly likely to be referring to the gauze type air silencer. Now you have pointed out in your further post on this topic that there is some concurrency of the two types. I agree and add some more thoughts to help further the discussion of these little parts. Firstly, the Kitelamp.com ‘X458’ brass fittings may wellbe suitable for the X359. Secondly, I believe we should call the X359 air silencer just that because of volume and convenience but from a correctness point of view it MAY well be the same air silencer that appears to be shown by @Mackburner on his April 1957 X410 in the gallery as I can see holes in the side of the air buttons. If that is the case it could be argued that it is really the X410-X359 brass air silencer. I note your X410A from September 1961 also has this air button. Interestingly, I cannot find in the Gallery an example of an X458 or X460 with this type of air silencer, only the gauze type. Thus the W. F. Shively 1960 Tilley price list seems correct in advertising the two types with the gauze type being advertised as X410-X458 and the other as the X359 air button. Which would be further correct as the X410 and X410A both had the gauze type air button on later models and the brass version on some of the earlier ones. However, your X410A of September 1961 which has the brass fitting is later than the X410A February 1961 posted by @Glenn which has the gauze type, which shows some overlap of types too. In summary, I think the brass closed end air button should be referred to as the X359 air button and the gauze ended air button should be referred to as the X410-X458 air button. I also wonder if there is a third type of air button being shown in this thread by @KAB ? AL8 - Track lamp reflector Iain ** X410, X410A, X458, & X460 @astroboy (all Gauze types) X410, X410a, X458 & X460 PS: Kindly note the above list of types are the ones I think I can determine what type of air button silencer they have. A couple I couldn't determine.
In spite of missing the screwdriver slot and a few more holes around the circumference, I'm sure these 'burner screws' are a perfect fit even if they do look more like Bialaddin silencer buttons. That makes good sense. O.K., I've only my own example and others in the reference gallery to go by but I'm sure the X359 was never fitted with the gauze ended air button. Ah, I can definitely shed some light on that. Have a look here Tilley 120A Here is an image of the 'filters' from the burner on my TL 120A dated september 1972. Note the excellent quality. A close-up.
You're welcome @Sedgman, sharing information / knowledge is what it's all about. After some digging in the Reference Library (subscribers only) I came across this post from @Alan Moore 1961 USA Tilley Parts/Price Part numbers for the respective air buttons X359 / X410, X458 can be found bottom right of the second page.
Mate have a look at UK dealer top bloke .. Julian Shaw www.tilleylampsandstoves.com he has those bushes and spigots and all kinds of stuff ... I do not know costs but you can contact him .. all on that site.
One of the members here used to make a brass version which looked good.. trying to get the burner assembled using the stainless ones is a right pain.. theres no ‘give’ in the s/steel so its easy to damage them before youve even lit the thing Next time (if there is a next time) I might try annealing them to see if that helps? Or just make some brass ones
