Tilley butterfly pump knob

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by vissertw, Nov 25, 2022.

  1. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    Hello, the postman came today, he brought a Tilley lamp, what else.

    In the advertisement my eye fell on the pump knob, I think you guys in England call for butterfly.
    A few questions, how about the green color on the tank, should I leave it or should I remove it in order to have a copper tank?
    The plus of this lamp is a top, hat without a scratch, but it appeared there is no cleaning needle, one cannot have all.

    Happy to hear your reflections, regards, Ton.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi Ton- I am not sure about the paint - others here will vouch for its authenticity.
    I would guess that the hood is maybe a later replacement. All the UK market gold painted ones I have seen have the brown hood. Export/plated ones seem to have the black one. The black one was used in subsequent models.
    Needles are available seperately or with a vapouriser. Part 607 is the needle. There should also be a spring on it.
    It looks like a nice example of a guardsman. There should be some codes underneath
    happy fettling
    Chris
     
  3. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    Thanks Chris, about the paint, the whole tank is in the same green color as shown on the pump in the third picture.
    And even the bottom of the tank is in the same color.
    It was in fact the unusual butterfly pump knob that draw my attention.
    Do you have an internet address where to buy the needle part number 607?
    The only inscription on the bottom of the tank is Made in England. And the side of the tank says Tilley, the owl and England.
    And I always enjoy fettling.

    Regards,

    Ton.
     
  4. Gary Waller

    Gary Waller Subscriber

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    The paint looks like duck egg blue, usually seen on the rare Rijkswaterstaat SDR lamps, I have never seen it on a Guardsman. Wing nut pumps you do see but again as above in that colour…not sure…:-k..
    The black hood is a later replacement.
     
  5. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    I would clean the tank with soapy water, then once over with car polish - at least that gives you a clear idea of the lamp’s paired state. I’d leave the paint on the pump, too.


    Cheers

    Tony
     
  6. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    Maybe hard to see on the pictures but it definitely is not blue, as said some sort of light green.
    And I wonder Gary, how can you be so sure about the hood being a later replacement?
    I shall compare this one with other black hoods I have, see if I can find some differences.

    Regards,

    Ton.
     
  7. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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  8. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    Ton, if there is no date code stamped on the base, it was manufactured in the period 1954 to October 1956.
     
  9. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    I think that the pump knob and hood are changed or added.
    The pump green colour is from RWS.
    The hood looks way to new if you compare it with the wear and patina of the tank.
     
  10. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @vissertw Ton, PM me with an address and I will post you a 607 needle
    Chris
     
  11. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    The day after.
    I gave the tank a good rub using car cleaner and elbowsteam. It seemed the tank had some sort of carspray on it.
    No one around here needs to worry anymore, I will leave it as it is now, I am satisfied.

    [​IMG]

    About buying new vaporiser and or cleaning needles, can anyone give me a hint about a good address?
    I have found them on Ebay, several sellers, what about the quality, are they all original?

    Have a nice weekend, regards,

    Ton.
     
  12. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    There are several in Holland as you know or find when asking google.
    Hytta in Germany and base camp in the UK.
    I guess that there will be an adress in Sweden to or more then one.
     
  13. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    The enamel on the original hood was the same colour as the paint on the frame and handle.
    The previous owner of my undated example of an X246 Guardsman in this colour scheme had worked for Balfour Beatty putting up power lines across the African bush in the 1950's.

    DSCN2619 (3)R.jpg
     
  14. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    Looks like the paint on the hood in your picture could be the same or like Henry.
    But no paint on the tank, looks like brass. And no butterfly pump knob.
    Many variations obviously.

    Regards,

    Ton.
     
  15. paul m

    paul m Subscriber

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    I've a Tilley heater in that blue colour, original...
     
  16. Jean J

    Jean J Subscriber

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    I would quite happily keep that colour @vissertw.
     
  17. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Nice work on the lantern, @vissertw.


    Cheers

    Tony
     
  18. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    I tried to test the lamp yesterday, without a mantle and it went very well.
    One small failure though, a very little drop of fuel through the on/off knob axel moving the needle up or down.
    Thought it would be a quick fix, but I cannot get the knob of the axel in order to change the small gummy ring that should fix it.
    Is there a trick to get that knob off?

    Regards,

    Ton.
     
  19. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi @vissertw
    The knob should unscrew.. anti clockwise.. may be tight so if you can’t do it with the fingers then use suitable pliers with something to protect the plastic

    ps did you try to tighten the gland nut?
     
  20. vissertw

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    Thanks @podbros , I found out it should unscrew, but it seems impossible so far.
    I will give it another try tomorrow. Are you sure it is plastic, I read somewhere it could be bakelite, maybe more breakable.

    And yes, I managed to tighten the gland nut which helped, but for how long.

    Have a nice weekend,

    Ton.
     
  21. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Maybe they are Bakelite but they have a brass insert thread so should come off ok
    A piece of leather wrapped around will help..
    I invested in some with nylon jaws.. money well spent

    Glad your test burn went well.. apart from the slight leak :thumbup:

    regards
     
  22. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    A little wd40 and some bravery does the trick usually ;)
     
  23. Buggerlugs

    Buggerlugs Australia Subscriber

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    That fount came up well, love the colour.
    The butterfly pump sure does top it all off, excellent find well done mate.
     
  24. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    And burning now, but I am not 100% satisfied , a few more questions.
    I have changed all seals and rubber props I could find. But I stopped in trying to get off the knob, in order to do something I took a bit of gas tape, made it look like a string, screw off the gland nut and wrapped the string around the axle a few turns, and it is tight now.
    The lamp is burning steady for about one hour now, but it has developed a few black spots on the mantle what can be the cause of that?
    I do not find it easy to mount the mantle by the way, too big hands, I do not suppose anyone knows a simple way?
    Another thing, the top of the burner, vaporizer is glowing red, should it?
    But, as it is more or less the first Tilley I fettle with I think I should be satisfied and I am impressed about the simplicity of Tilley.

    [​IMG]

    Regards,

    Ton.
     
  25. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi Ton @vissertw
    That is not right.. Do not run the lantern with that happening as the top will melt !!! Stop and switch off !!!

    *how many pumps are you using?
    and .. *how much fuel is in the tank?

    regards
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  26. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    Hi @podbros

    Just red your answer, switched off the lamp now but in my opinion it was still burning very well, stedy.
    And it looks like the red top shine of the burner was gone now that is to say, before switching off.

    I think I gave the lamp 50 or 60 pumps after the mantle began to glow and the tank is about half filled, I have a Tilley dipstick and used it, the tank is not over filled.
    How many pumps should be sufficient?

    Regards,

    Ton.
     
  27. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi Ton
    I was more worried that there was not enough fuel
    Usual working pressure is nearer 100 pumps so I would try that but build it up like you said with 50/60 pumps first to warm up then more pressure

    did you check all the parts on the burner for tightness?

    forgive me for asking obvious questions

    it could be a number of factors such as the burner is worn or leaking air or perhaps the vapouriser??

    perhaps others members could offer their opinions too ???

    hopefully it is something simple ..
    the mantle looks very well formed and the lantern has a nice appearance :thumbup:
    regards
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  28. vissertw

    vissertw Subscriber

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    I think I do not have to worry after your last answer.
    I did check everything, and I am only glad someone is trying to help, thanks.

    I cleaned the burner, did not see anything I should suspect.
    The vapourizer is ok, completed with a good clean needle supplied by our member Chris, thanks again Chris!

    About the mantle, little black spots, what causes?
    I think the mantle looks a bit small, if I compare this one to some Coleman and Swedish lamps I have.

    Regards,

    Ton.
     
  29. ROBBO55

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    Black spots on the mantle is usually associated with too much fuel in tha air / fuel mixture.
    Is there a flame halo around the outside of the mantle?

    Tilley mantles do look small compared to many single tie mantles.

    Good looking lantern. :thumbup:
     
  30. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    On of the commonly overlooked causes of black spot/poor burning mantle, is air being sucked into the vapouriser through the gland nut (packing box).

    My suggestion is to remove the black bakelite knob; take off the gland nut; throroughtly remove the remnants of the the old washer(s) inside the gland nut and replace with two of the Fettlebox O-rings made for that purpose.

    A veteran of kerosene lighting here in Australia, who has fettled more Tilley lamps than I could count, told me that he began using two O-rings in the Tilley gland nut in the late 1980s/early 1990s to overcome problems of poor performance from the vapourisers being sold by Tilley at that time. Using two O-rings also has the advantage that the gland nut can be tightened to a proper seal without force.

    Edit: I would also check that the vapouriser is comfortably sealed to the control cock (not overtightened).

    Tony
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022

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