Tilley cock not sealing

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Paraffinhead, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Paraffinhead

    Paraffinhead United Kingdom Subscriber

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    The control cock on my early cock.jpg Tilley Pork Pie is not sealing at all. It seems to close ok but clearly there is no seal - I can blow past it & pumping the lamp gives an impressive jet of paraffin with the cock closed. Have any of you fettlers any tips on removing and cleaning the central plunger / plug before I resort to buying a replacement cock? Note there is no filter on the bottom, there was an NRV when I dismantled it.

    Paul.
     
  2. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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  3. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    G'day Paul, the valve does not dismantle any further than Tony has shown above. The plunger / plug won't come out.
     
  4. Paraffinhead

    Paraffinhead United Kingdom Subscriber

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    There is no filter barrel - this appears to be part of the tank. I really don't see the point of the NRV unless every cock is prone to leaking - it should be the other way up as shown in your pic shouldn't it?

    I can see the plunger move up & down, what I don't know is whether there is some crud under it stopping it sealing properly.

    Paul.
     
  5. Paraffinhead

    Paraffinhead United Kingdom Subscriber

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    As I thought - ebay time!

     
  6. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Paraffinhead

    Hold your horses.

    Let me go and get my model exactly the same as yours and take a photo.

    Hang five.

    Tony
     
  7. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Paraffinhead

    Look at the photos below.

    Your photo does not show essential components of your control cock.

    Look in the top of your tank where the control cock is screwed in. They may be there, having become unscrewed from the control cock.

    When you find them, put them together and screw them back onto your control cock.


    C3582DA1-4C81-49A1-A713-71FB6153FE5D.jpeg

    2A756D16-E3E9-4BE1-9D0E-364DA7E3FBDB.jpeg

    7C00B19D-BCEE-418A-8FCB-CE198EA263B4.jpeg

    5C3D6E23-D6DA-4DBA-84FE-488D5E44BAA4.jpeg


    Tony
     
  8. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    Paul, the plunger is an activating mechanism only and isn't designed to seal the flow of fuel. What you referred to as the NRV is the shut off seal (shown in Tony's pictures).
     
  9. KAB

    KAB Subscriber

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    If the jet of fuel is coming from the top of the vaporizer then only pressurize the tank after preheating and ready to light and unscrew the pump to release the pressure for the lamp to go out. When storing the lamp leave the pump unscrewed slightly. I only use the control cock to operate the pricker. Fine to do on PARAFFIN lamps but not on Petrol / Coleman Fuel

    If the fuel is coming outside the cock then there should be a seal between the cock and tank.
     
  10. Paraffinhead

    Paraffinhead United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I've put a new seal in the cock - the original was past it's best. The cock is sealing better but there is still a pressure leak somewhere. As a contingency I've bought a cock off Ebay which has the filter barrel attached - this is missing off mine.

    The new pump NRV isn't doing it's job properly - it is a standard new X246 jobbie. It may be a tad small for Porky's pump. The original NRV has a plain brass end and a much longer stem than the replacement - no recess for a pip. So - should there be a pip at all, relying on the flat brass face to make the seal?
     
  11. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Paraffinhead

    I think you would do much better to put your original control cock together the way it was designed.

    That is, as in my photo above, with the filter cup, brass pip holder, pip, and spring all fitted correctly to the control cock. That is how the lantern was designed to operate.

    Someone in the UK will have a suitable cup. Otherwise I will send you one. You have all the other parts.

    Tony
     
  12. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Paraffinhead

    On your pump: you should have a (Viton/rubber) pip, either a one piece or one that sits in a brass holder (these are better than the one piece pip). Again, the original parts will work best.

    Tony
     
  13. Paraffinhead

    Paraffinhead United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Thanks for the offer Tony - the cock I bought has the bits I need.
     
  14. MG

    MG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Where abouts are you, if you get stuck maybe someone could take a look if local.
     
  15. Seamanjive

    Seamanjive Subscriber

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    No filter barrel..appears to be part of tank...

    I just acquired an early x246, loop bail/handle, no logo engraved, no date stamp on base.

    When removing control cock from tank no gauze or filter barrel. There is a spring and pip with a shaft which sits down into the tank and rise when the control knob is turned.

    Is this like yours? Am I / we missing any parts?

    Thx

    Jamie
     
  16. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    Hi @Seamanjive
    The cock for the Pork Pie is as Tony has shown.
    There are 2 seals, the one that seals the fount to the cock, it’s sits in the removable bushing against the fount. The cock must screw done onto this seal, the outer bushing is there so you can orientate the position of the cock’s adjustment knob only, it’s not for the actual sealing.
    The other seal is as shown in Tony’s pictures and screws into the bottom of the cock. It’s job is to stem the flow into the cock when the cock’s knob is turned to the pricking position. This seal is rudimentary only and can’t be relied upon for a good seal. It was never designed as a positive shut off, usually a needle and seat would be required to do this. In most cases this seal will leak.
    That’s why when the lamp is not in use we unscrew the pump such that any pressure in the tank is relieved thereby stopping fuel escaping through the generator.
    Hope this helps.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  17. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    The control cock screws into a bush, the bush screws into the tank. Have you also removed the
    bush ? If not, then do so, I'm sure you'll find the missing part.

    Henry.
     
  18. Seamanjive

    Seamanjive Subscriber

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    A bit of a twist with the MoleGrips and it was free ! Blew thru the filter gauze and cleaned some lint looking stuff from the aperture going down into the tank.
    Cleaned up the needle with a bit of steel wool and knocked some carbon/soot from the vaporiser.
    Worked some olive oil into the pump leather and now working smoothly.
    Poked thru the burner ports and all clear. Removed the split pin from the air input tube but was unable to free the single gland. The split pin arrangement makes me think that the hood is not original.
    All pressurises ok with a good steady flow of air from the tip of the vaporiser.
    I splashed a bit of soapy water around the various seals. A few bubbles from the pump fitment and noticed that the pump handle pushed back up after a while. Possible prob with the NRV?
    Tiny bubbles around the cock knob.
    Is any degree of leakage acceptable ?
    I'm tempted to put on a mantle and fire up this X246 lantern.....any thoughts ?
     
  19. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    @Seamanjive, Go for it.
    A short run without too much pressure should be fine.
    The pump seal would be the biggest concern but if the plunger is only coming up slowly you should be able to just push it down when it does.
    It is likely to smell so keep it outdoors and bring the pressure up slowly.
     
  20. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    @Seamanjive The NVR is leaking and should be rectified. To get to the NRV you need to extract the pump, the NRV is housed on the end of the pump tube. Unscrew the NRV housing and you will see a small brass fitting with a small spring fitted. In the brass fitting there is a pip that is the actual seal. You may have to replace this seal, or sometimes, if you’re really really lucky, you might be able to turn over the pip to get a new side.
    The leak at the valve control knob seal can be rectified, by first tightening the capturing collar with you fingers. It may be tight but I recommend that you don’t use plier or tools. If this doesn’t work, then you will have to unscrew the knob, unscrew the collar and replace the small seal.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  21. Seamanjive

    Seamanjive Subscriber

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    This is a pretty old model I think. Its a an X246 with the loop bail/handle arrangment. Any thoughts on freeing the NRV to check condition ? Its about the only part I havent dismantled !
     
  22. Seamanjive

    Seamanjive Subscriber

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    Think I fixed the collar leak by tightening down a bit, still fingers only. Im a bit concerned about the NRV. Dont want to force it but will it undo with a tweak from pliers ?
     
  23. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    Yes, I actually wrap a bit of leather around the NRV housing then use the pliers. The leather allows a good grip without marking the brass. You can also use some penetrating oil on the threads as well.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  24. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    @Seamanjive just thinking, if it’s very tight you can use boiling water to heat the NRV. The heat from the boiling water may assist in the unscrewing. DON’T USE A FLAME you will bugger the soldering. The boiling water provides heat without doing any damage to any soldered joint or seam.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  25. Seamanjive

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    Ok. Did that when fettled my x246b and the leather wrap ploy worked really well. Just wanted to be sure that the aluminium housing does actually unscrew ! Thx for your help Pete.
     
  26. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    No worries mate, glad that I could help.
    Cheers
    Pete
     
  27. Seamanjive

    Seamanjive Subscriber

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    Like it, great idea. I'm on it.....
     
  28. X246A

    X246A United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @Seamanjive

    And a new set of washers from Ross at The Fettle Box.

    Regards Jeremy
     
  29. Seamanjive

    Seamanjive Subscriber

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    Ok, NRV housing freed. Pip looks rather indebted and is hard. I'm sure that's not right. Extended the spring a bit but still giving way somewhat. Guess me seals/pips etc not a bad idea!
    Can anyone advise me just what I need? It's an old x246 with the loop mount for the bail.
    One other thing...any thoughts on getting the pressure indicator working?
     
  30. AussiePete

    AussiePete Australia Subscriber

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    @Seamanjive
    Looks like a new seal pip is required. It’s probably the same type and size as the seal in the cock.
    As Jeremy suggested, The Fettle Box has all the spares required.
    As to the pressure indicator, it’s quite common for them to not be working. I have had some minor success by dribbling penetrating oil in and around the indicator, then increase and decrease the pressure in the tank. The pressure fluctuations and the oil may free the indicator up. It’s worth a try.
    Cheers
    Pete
     

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