Tilley FL6 floodlight without fuel gauge?

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by popo_fireman, Jan 16, 2021.

  1. popo_fireman Belgium

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    Hello gentlemen and ladies (?)

    I've been reading along here, without actually participating in the conversations for over a few years till now...

    My name is Christophe (French name, talking Dutch, living in Belgium...43 years old, collecting pressure lamps since 2016).

    So far my introduction.

    I've got hold on a Tilley FL6 floodlight without a fuel gauge. Back plate is rivetted, control knob screwed on (early type).

    Has anyone got a clue of the date produced?

    Possibly during the war? The fuel gauge omitted as a cost saving?

    Sadly the reflector is rusted. The control knob and burner unit missing (could be solved ofcourse).

    The middle glass section is also lost (major problem)... borosilicate glass, custome made will cost me more then I've paid for this lantern.

    Maybe I'll fettle a temporary solution with a burner for an AL21 with longer tubes, custom made.
    The 7" vaporiser seems to be ok at first sight.

    Cheers from Belgium,
    Christophe

    IMG_20210116_205426.jpg IMG_20210116_205416.jpg IMG_20210116_205402.jpg IMG_20210116_205342.jpg
     

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  2. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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  3. WimVe

    WimVe Subscriber

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    You can try normal glass too. As long as it can expand and ontract due to the heat it will work.
     
  4. Fireexit1

    Fireexit1 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    The glass on mine never seems to get that hot. I am sure that some other cheaper glass would do as Wim says. Otherwise spares do appear from time to time. I have seen the glass on Ebay (none right now) late last year.
    There are new reflectors on there - but again not cheap.
    Chris
     
  5. Tom Pedersen

    Tom Pedersen Denmark Subscriber

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  6. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    Not likely to be rust.
    Chrome over copper.
    Try a magnet.

    1936 to 1940 is most likely but it would depend if it takes an XN or a GF control cock.
    How deep is the hole that the control screws into ?

    Use the vapouriser poked in the hole.
    If you can see the line it is GF, if not then XN.
     
  7. R100

    R100 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Welcome to the forum Christophe. That is a fine lamp you have there and well worth restoring. You may have problems fitting an AL21 burner as they are smaller than the FL6 type and you may have problems lining up the air tubes with the reflector holes. The AL21 also takes a smaller mantle.
     
  8. Brenneman

    Brenneman Netherlands Subscriber

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    Nice find!

    Indeed some rust is coming through on the reflector.
    I had the steel reflector of my WW2 era FL6 replated.

    No gauge on the tank likely indicates indicate a WW2 era produced tank.
    It has the bigger pump, so likely at least post 1938?

    Biesgaard & Nielsen (link from Tom Pedersen) sell some some surplus floodlight parts, you could possible source a burner with airtubes from them as well.
     
  9. popo_fireman Belgium

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    @ all,

    Thanks guys for your input, very informative indeed.

    @Tom Pedersen maybe I'll try that!!! Thx :-)
    @WimVe The use of a "normal" glass section is an idea...I was already thinking it could be cut from an old window wich is still gahtering dust in my garage (exact thickness).
    @Anthony rust indeed... as @Brenneman said, it's made of iron/steel. Pump is the bigger one, correct. Sadly it's overpainted, but there are absolutely no traces of any decals or copper plate visible. I'll check the control cock asap...
    @R100 thx!!! I was on the verge of buying one for the AL21...could better save my money then ;-)


    "Maybe" the lamp was used by the BEF (British Expeditionary Force) to iluminate a military airfield in the neighbourhood (Brasschaat, wich was nothing more than a concrete strip in 1940).
    The old Belgian military landing ground was inactivated and obstructed during the German occupation. Rehabilitated in early 1944 and in use in mid-August and afterwards again in use by commonwealth troops.

    Sooo Maaaybe...If lamps could speak...
    Date: 1938/1940 maybe?

    Kind regards,
    Christophe
     
  10. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    Huh, good to know. I have not them with steel before. :thumbup:


    @R100, I always thought they were the same burner with different length air tubes.
    I see the FL6 takes the 191 mantle and the AL21 takes the 190 mantle.
    I get the impression you have done some experimenting your self.:-k
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  11. podbros

    podbros United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Thanks, it's a useful link :thumbup:
     
  12. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Anthony & @R100

    In a catalogue that I suspect is 1940s, but later than 1945 as it has the X246 listed, Tilley gives the burner for the FL6 as “Burner 750” and the mantle as “Mantle 191”.

    In the same catalogue, the burner for the AL 21 is given as “Burner 751” and the mantle as “Mantle 190”.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  13. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    I suspect the only difference between the two burners is the style of the air tubes and the difference between the mantles is the actual physical size, the top and bottom openings will be exactly the same.

    It's too late here for me to start digging out an FL6 to compare the dimensions of its burner with those from an AL21, I'll do it tomorrow.

    I've a strong feeling this will work.

    As far as mantles go, it depends how "correct" you want the lamp to be. I've used twin-tie versions of 164 mantles (used on every non reflected 300 cp Tilley lamp and lantern) on FL6s, AL21s, AL15, AL15A, AL620 etc. and they work just fine.
     
  14. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    Tony, Im finding that the AL21 burner is number is 577.
    751 is the sleeve for the FL6.
     
  15. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Mmmm....

    I’ll look again...

    Tony
     
  16. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    You are correct, @Anthony! My brain must have gone wandering.

    The Part Number for the AL21 burner in the catalogue I was looking at is indeed 577.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  17. Tom Pedersen

    Tom Pedersen Denmark Subscriber

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    @popo_fireman
    Hey.
    I have a complete set of spare parts and gaskets for FL6 if you are interested we can probably find a solution to that.
    However, the control tap is not there.
    Tom
    22222.jpg
     
  18. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    This may be superfluous but for what it's worth, the only difference between the FL6 and AL21 burners is the air tubes.

    Total length of an FL6 air tube is 104mm. AL21 = 80mm

    DSCN0699 (2).JPG
    DSCN0698 (2).JPG DSCN0695 (2).JPG DSCN0697 (2).JPG
     
  19. R100

    R100 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Henry, that is interesting. I measured the diameter below the air tubes of one of my FL6's against my AL21 and the AL21 measures about 1/8" smaller. Could be just batch differences I suppose. It is difficult for me to take other measurements with destroying the mantles.

    My advice given to the OP was in good faith as I surmised there may be other dimensional differences, plus the AL21 of course uses smaller mantles as standard.
     
  20. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Three two arm burners:

    889428F0-9B2E-4FD8-88D8-7615BEA031CF.jpeg

    F51E34E8-939F-4946-B420-CB1D3EAF6A7A.jpeg

    4AC459A9-DFE3-4F9D-B3D2-D5C309A0D5A1.jpeg

    These were not attached to lamps. I have a batch of NOS of the one in the front of the last photo.

    Tony
     
  21. R100

    R100 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Those three all appear different in subtle ways. Is it evolution of the design or deliberate differences for different applications? Or are the differences insignificant?
     
  22. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    The rear one is interesting.
    Tony, is it long enough to go on an AL21 and just screw the air buttons on ??
    The tall mixing dome indicates FL6 though.
    Some of my FL6s are taller than others.
     
  23. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    That's quite a difference. I've just measured my two burners below the air tubes, the FL6 is 28mm, the AL21 is less than 0.5mm smaller.

    The diameter of the groove where the mantle fits is 23mm on both burners. The spigot, being standard on all but 500cp burners, is the same.

    I don't doubt that but it raised some doubt in my mind as to how accurate my observations were. The comparisons I made were really to reassure myself that I wasn't wrong. The few images help clarify the issue.
     
  24. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    To add to @Tony Press input, here are burners from, front to rear, AL21 Mk3, AL21 Mk4 and an FL6. The FL6 air tube is longer than it appears in the image.

    DSCN0704 (2).JPG

    All mixing tubes (domes) are stamped with the patent number. Note the narrower band of knurling on the AL21 Mk.4
    DSCN0706 (3).JPG
    All air tubes are 7/16" OD x 5/16 ID (11 x 8 mm) and are threaded 7/16 x 26 t.p.i. Compare how the threads are finished

    DSCN0703 (2)R.jpg Tony's image. (2)AR.jpg

    Not possible. In order to put the AL21 burner onto the vapouriser, it must be raised to the point where the airtubes are just inside the chimney which is only about 90mm wide.

    Just a thought; could the rear burner in @Tony 's image be for an SL ?
     
  25. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Anthony & @Henry Plews

    In the photograph below, the burner at the front (the shortest) has no patent stamping or knurling on the mixing tube, but it looks like post-1940s Tilley NOS (I have a few). The one in the middle has the patent stamp and knurling. The one at the back (the tallest) has no markings, but when I get a chance, I’ll check to make sure it’s not Kayen.

    Late today I’ll do some measurements.

    1FC028CE-BF84-4D32-AC3F-8BD6167C8F12.jpeg

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  26. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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  27. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    Makes me wonder why the Kayen CL12 has such a different burner to the Kayen CL8.
     
  28. Anthony

    Anthony Australia Subscriber

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    I put the vapouriser in the burner first and then screw the vapouriser into the control cock.
    Seems to be easier to protect the mantle if there is a mantle fitted.
    Could also be done with much longer air tubes than on the middle burner in Tonys picture.
     
  29. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    I always use that method on an FL6 and it will obviously work on an AL21 with standard air tubes. I'm not convinced it will work with a burner as wide as the one in question i.e. the one at the rear in the last image posted by @Tony Press.

    The method still requires the burner to be raised above its normal working height. I've measured a random selection of vapourisers and allowing clearance for the end of the cleaning needle, that distance averages 11mm. I put a 13mm diameter dowel through the airtube holes in the casing of an AL21 and with calipers, measured the distance both at the holes = 165mm and aproximately 12mm above = 148mm.

    If the mystery burner is less than 148mm wide, your method may well work but I remain sceptical.

    I have no special scientific measuring devices and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be so I accept measurements taken by other lampers may be different to mine.
     
  30. popo_fireman Belgium

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    @Anthony
    It's the later GF control cock.
    So, let's say about the 1940ies then...

    @Tom Pedersen
    E-mail sent to B&N. I hope they will respond soon.

    @all
    Thanks for the advise and information guys...
    (Seems that I've started an intense discussion about those burners). ;)

    Cheers,
    Christophe
     

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