Tilley Pork pie problem

A few years ago I bought a 246 pork pie fount & cage, complete with cock & vapouriser. Over 2020 due to looking at lockdown projects I’ve been acquiring the missing parts. Today I started to put it all together, to test before a full renovation. I changed the pump washers and give it a go. I got a good flow of air from the vapouriser so thought that’s fine. As I’d just been cleaning some of my bird feeders, I still had a sink full of water in the garage, so unusually for me I did a dunk test. To my amazement and indeed horror I had an air leak from one of the frame holder studs!
The air is coming out between the stud and it’s base. So my question is, how is that happening? Is it soldered in, screwed in or a pit of both?
I did a little brazing at school 50 odd year’s ago, but not since. I have a gas torch for plumbing jobs but that’s it. Would plumbing solder do the job or does it need brazing, silver soldering. Your comments and advice would be very welcome

cheers
Malcolm

 

@malcolm race

It will need re-soldering, in situ. Don’t try to unscrew anything.

Plumbers solder is fine for this job. Anything requiring more heat might cause other problems.


Cheers

Tony

 

Thanks Tony, so do I just apply flux heat it up and hope the solder runs down in the right place?

 

Hi Malcolm.. Cleanliness is everything when it comes to soldering.. clean metal, no paint or dirt.

Where you put the flux, the solder will follow when heat is applied.

If you have something to practice on first, that will help?

There are some great threads on here, just search for 'soldering'

Good luck

 

@malcolm race

Additional information towards the bottom of this topic
Tilley SDR, repair to frame

 

@malcolm race . Hi there, follow, @Henry Plews lead, i had the issue, henery pointed me in the right direction, if you have the skill set to do it your self, i did practice on other things soldering and silver solder, i did land up taking it to a professional fell who solders things for a job, he silver soldered mine, job well done
Follow the thread
All good

 

Ok that great, a very detailed article, I’ll re read and follow later. Thanks Henry & Darryl

 

For jobs like this, I use a "flux brush" to apply a liquid flux. I use this brand but there are others which will be just as good.



Whether liquid or paste, flux is corrosive so once the job is done, make sure to wash off all residues.

 

FYI

I have heard and read that you can "mask" areas you do not want solder to flow into or on, (ie all down your tank etc) by using a felt tip marker to paint in the areas you want to mask. Also read that indian ink does the same job. If i remember right this was on the CPL stoves site somewhere.

i have not tried it myself however but have repaired many stress cracks in founts by the groove out, indent top of split, and apply paste flux and electricians fluxed solder method that seems to work very well on my lamps and stove legs and founts.

 

Masking with felt tip marker pens works well, as does toothpaste.

Tony

 

A question for Henry, in the other article you say hold it by the handle.
Do you mean I have to screw the frame back on. If so how tight? If I screw it on properly I’ll not be able to add solder to run down the thread, or am I miss understanding.
I thought it would have had to be upside down to see the solder run.
Mrs R has had me on other duties today so I might get chance to have a go tomorrow

 

Malcolm, is the leak coming from the threads? The threads are cut in a blind hole and shouldn't access the inside of the tank . You don't want to get solder in the threads unless they are leaking. Solder should be applied around the outside of the insert .

 

Yes Rob, the air is coming out between the thread & the insert. As far as I can see

 

Malcolm, I think you need to repeat the dunk test and determine exactly where the leak is. If it is coming from the thread, it could complicate the repair.

 

@malcolm race

I would be making very, very sure the leak is through the threads before embarking on soldering them.

Indeed, if that is where the leak is coming from, there is a particular Loctite product that might fix your problem.

You had better double check the leak.

Tony

 

Agree with Tony. It's a lot easier to fool with the loctite than the solder for sure.

 

When you say 'stud' ; do you mean like these


On the inside, they look like this


This was a Bialaddin tank but the principle is the same.



Whether a stud or a socket, they're held in place because they're basically a nut and bolt. The solder is only there to ensure a leakproof seal. For some reason or another, the solder has split/cracked/torn hence the leak. As you can see, especially on the X246A tank, there's plenty of solder in situ so there may be no need to add more. Heat applied externally to either the boss or stud will conduct to the inside and soften the solder so that it flows, as soon as it does, remove the heat.
BUT THE SOLDER'S ON THE INSDE; HOW DO I KNOW WHEN IT FLOWS ? I hear you ask politely. Be observant ! When the temperature is enough to make the solder flow, tiny tell-tale beads of solder will appear on the outside of the fitting.

I imagine that for some reason or another, the solder has cracked/torn very much like the solder here (in this instance, the split wasn't the issue)

 

I’ve taken a video, but can’t seem to upload it, but yes it is leaking between the stud & the insert

 

Videos are trickier to upload.. you have to post it on youtube or similar first..

Take a pic with a small screwdriver pointing at the offending area???

 

Sorry Henry, my reply crossed with yours. The arrows in your photo are pointing at what I am calling the insert. My leak is between that and the thread

 

The video shows it much better but I hope this helps

 

@malcolm race

Ah, now I see. What you are calling the insert is in fact a nut. Not to worry, have another look at the second image I posted and you'll see the slotted round heads of machine screws. The screws are put through holes and secured with the round nut which is easily mistaken for an insert and then sealed with solder. All this is done during the manufacturing process before the baseplate is put in.

So, all you need to do is make sure the threads are scrupulously clean, use wire wool to get a good shine on the brass, you could also wash with detergent or degreaser as a belt and braces measure. Apply flux and then start to heat the stud, occasionally touch the solder to where you're pointing with the screwdriver to see if it's hot enough, when it is, you will see the solder will flow. It wont take much so as long as the solder has gone all the way round, take away the solder and heat and allow to cool. Job done.
This can't be too far from your doorstep.
www.toolstation.com/lead-free-flux-cored-solder/p97854?msclkid=78c9144700211628e5ac4bb88c34a892&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLC+Hand+Tools+%7C+Brands&utm_term=4578778741140813&utm_content=Hand+Tools

 

@malcolm race
Yes, and I see too. I was thinking of the version 1 or 2 with the brass frame that screws into the insert.



@Henry Plews is spot on with his advice.

 

@malcolm race

My apologies, I should have mentioned that in this case, there's no need to fit the frame.

Two more images.

 

Thanks Henry your cutaway pictures are great, and really cleared up my mind. I have to admit I was thinking the fastening was the other way up. Ie a headless stud in an insert with a hex nut inside to lock it in.
I have some cored solder so I’ll pluck up the courage and have a go. I’ll report back later.
Cheers

 

Well I bit the Bullet, and had a go! Success, the first attempt sorted the leak from the thread, but created a very slight leak from the insert/nut, I heated it a bit more added more solder and sorted. Probably not the neatest of repairs but I’m happy with it. I’ll clean up the excess as I get further into the job, it also will need a repaint now as well. Thanks for all your comments & particularly to Henry for his detailed text & brilliant cutaways. Getting me out of a jam again. Plus of course another skill learnt
Cheers
Malcolm

 

I would be tempted to heat it up a bit and wipe the excess liquid solder off - but be quick so you don't undo your repair

 

I’m going to a soldering iron, just on the excess, so as not to get it too hot

 

I use a damp piece of thick towelling to wipe excess solder off, you have to be quick though as it doesn’t stay fluid for long. It also helps to force the solder into the joint.

 

It's every bit as neat as my early attempts. Believe me, you'll get better with practice.