The pump nut on my Tilley x264b seems to be unbelievably stuck. It's this nut, the one from the valve: I've tried holding the pump with water pump pliers (pipe wrench?), I had it in a vice with nylon vice jaw liners, adding extra rubber liner for grip, even had a pneumatic impact gun on it... But the pump body keeps slipping. And of course you can't really crank down on the pumpbody as it will damage/deform then. There are already some marks on it, but it's still very round on the inside. Obviously this is way past handtight... Is there a trick to it? In the past I've refurbished the pump from a x264a, but that nut just screwed off by hand (but that's a slightly different design). The rubber pad inside is still functional and slightly rubbery, althoug it's harder than a fresh one.. If I heat it up or solder a bracket onto the pump for better grip in the vice, I'll destroy the rubber that's inside now for sure, and then the nut has to come off. I wonder how it got so stuck. U don't see any signs of that someone might have put epoxy or something on the threads. Also the lamp was pretty much unfettled with when I bought it. The only think I can think of is that somehow maybe galvanic corrosion has set in. But the lamp itself (and inside of the tank etc) is in really good nick, not much corrosion anywhere. And a surrounding covered in petroleum is not a typical surrounding for galvanic corrosion of course. Has anyone dealt with this before and found a way to solve this?
What if you wrap the end of the pump tube in wet kitchen roll The warm the bottom nut with blowlamp see if the heat loosens it a bit. Hold the pump tube in some sort of sandpaper to get more grip Few ideas to try Cheers pete
I already had it in boiling water, but that made no difference. Normally if you want to overcome the bond of epoxy, loctite, or worse, galvanic corrosion, it has to be heated up much higher (like 200C and beyond), and that'll destroy the rubber seal inside. Similar to using stuff like acetone. But maybe I'll make a custom vise liner from a block of wood, drilling a hole in it same diameter as the pump tube and split that in half to clamp in the vise. That way there is much less chance of deforming the pump tube. I might line that round hole with some very fine emery cloth (360grid or so) glued into place for extra grip
For now, I think you can still leave it as it is. The pump is still functional, I suppose. It is probably high time to look for a new pump or the NRV and seals. If, sometime in the future, the pump fails due to a bad seal or whatever,... and you remain adamant on getting it fixed, then maybe you can try something more aggressive. Begin with something that doesn't melt any soldered joints. Soak it in very hot brake fluid(DOT 3). Keep the temperature in check so that it doesn't boil, spill over or catch fire. Keep it so for 20 minutes at a temperature around 160-180°C. While still hot, lift it out and give your best shot loosening it with the tools you have at hand. Work fast at this point. If it doesn't budge within the first minute, dunk the tube again into the hot fluid and repeat once hot enough. The heated brake fluid will seep into whatever porosities in any rusted surface or dirt build-ups. The heat plus chemical action of the brake fluid would defeat any kind of adhesives, epoxies, loctite, etc if these happen to be there.
I had similar experiences with both brass and aluminium nuts: With brass nuts, Myn's advice is good! With aluminium nuts, I damaged them beyond repair, (fubar). The white Al rust is extremely difficult to dissolve and really gets into the threads, locking it! You will most probably break tke valve into various pieces!
Ok, it's not coming off. I made a custom viseclamp from wood and lined it with fine emery cloth, clamped it down pretty good, but even with a pneumatic impact gun the nut is not coming loose and the pump housing spins inside the clamp (it's a fairly powerful impact). The blows are so hard that the aluminium nut starts to deform. So when the time comes that the rubber seal inside doesn't seal anymore, I'll have to replace the pump alas. Luckily for now it's still good. Who knows how long it'll stay that way.
What a nuisance and annoying as well. When it does give up you could try some heat on it? I looked at one similar on a table lamp and did some measurements I think the swage line is also a crimp line? I was worried that heat would unsolder things but I don’t think that will happen. I thought most of these later pumps were the same but there are a few differences…
Since the pump is still functional, I'd say, better to just leave it as it is, rather than possibly ruining it further. The aluminium is easily deformed. The threads can seize easily. Moreover, if yours has any of those white corrosion products of aluminium, they are particularly abrasive, adding friction. New X246B pumps are still easily available from many places. This is what it is supposed to look like when removed:- Picture 'stolen' from Jeremy's post. If you decide to unscrew it later, remember not to use any lye(sodium hydroxide). It'll eat up the aluminium.
Yes that's what I'm gonna do. It's still functional. If I poke the rubber with a little screwdriver I can feel it's still pliable, however, it is stiffer than a new, fresh rubber seal. But I think this is still the original rubber seal. The lamp is from 1985, so roughly 40 years old. It might hold out another 40 years.... If I'm lucky I still might be around by then I know strong alkaline solutions like sodiumhydroxide attack aluminium. There is no aluminiumoxide visible. However it might still be a form of galvanic corrosion, despite a petroleum/oil covered surrounding usually limits that. Because it's a pump, air is compressed. Compressed air can hold less water vapour, so with every pumping stroke, condensation water is formed, especially in the evening/at night when relative moisture levels in the air are high. That moisture could work itself inbetween the threads (dripping down also means dripping in those threads). If that moisture replaces the petroleum at the surface of the aluminium, corrosion can set in, helped with that the aluminium becomes a sacreficial metal. I can indeed buy a brand new pump here for around €44 (3 times as much though as I paid for the whole lamp 16 years ago )
€44 seems expensive for a fairly common Tilley pump. I'd doubt the rubbers would last that long if they are in constant contact with fuel. If the threads of the aluminium piece hasn't been crossed-seized with those of the brass tube, then it should still be possible to loosen it someday.
If I were going to replace the pump I would look on e bay for an all brass pump from an earlier x246 model, far better quality and would last alot longer than the aluminium ones.
That is the price in Dutch and German webshops. If I order it from the UK, after added VAT and broker costs, it'll cost roughly the same. At Tilley.co.uk, they can ship a pump VAT exempt (then the price is £21.25), and have very reasonable/low EU shipping costs (£3,75) although I have a feeling that's an error in their webshop as it says 5.00g, and of course the pump is much heavier than that. But say it works out that way, £25, which is €29.34. In dutch customs, it'll get hit with 21% VAT, so the price is €35,49, but it'll also get hit with a brokers fee (costs for the service to declare the VAT at customs, this is what the shipping company charges), and that can vary between €7 and €17,50, but on average its €10-12. So the final price is then also roughly €45-47, pretty much the same as a local supplier here. Since the Brexit, those broker fees make it not really worthwile to buy stuff anymore in the UK as a private consumer. Most stuff consumers buy is <€50 per transaction. So I can only imagine that since the Brexit, UK based webshops that mainly have private consumers as customers (and thus a lot of EU customers) are having a really bad time because of those broker fees. I used to buy loads of stuff in the UK over the internet (both through webshops and uk ebay), but since the brexit...it's really not worthwile anymore. Shipping costs in itself are also usually crazy high from the UK now (€17-20 is not exceptional...base-camp.co.uk charges £17.45, so if you order there and add that to the cost of a pump, it'll be way more expensive from the UK than here locally in NL)
The older pumps are indeed of much higher quality. Better materials, better finish. But I also like to keep the lamp original... Tough choice.
So the Brexit manoeuvre doesn't sound favourable at all to any buyers from outside of UK. Very well...since you would need a pump eventually, I reckon that wouldn't matter that much, once in a while. Looks like you need 2 pumps then. One brass and the other, original aluminium
Hoi Guido, if you send me an PM, I have plenty pumps, you can get one from me for free, I'm in The Netherlands around Alkmaar, greetings Ronald
Nowadays in the Netherlands there are very much very nice (almost not used) Tilley Guardsman lamps for sale.. prices are average around 25 - 35 euro's and even then they are not sold! Probably because of the people who are into these lamps allready have enough!? It looked like the older people who always kept there best Tilley lamp on the attic (for..you know never why..) now pass away and their lamps are now been sold on the digital marketplace! So now you guys know where to get Tilley parts for nice prices!
Update: Look what @Ron M gave to me A fresh pumptube with a nut that came loose! (and fresh seal/leather) He also had a few with stuck nuts, so these nuts getting stuck seems to be a somewhat structural issue. I think if you have such a pump it's wise to loosen and tighten (not too tight) the nut annually or so, checking on moisure or corrosion.
Wow! It is fortunate that you happen to be living in the Netherlands too. Seized aluminium threads are pretty common. To prevent that from happening again, I'd just neatly wrap some PTFE tape around the threads before screwing the NRV back into the tube. PTFE tape is fuel-resistant. You can use any other low-strength, fuel-resistant sealants if you're not a fan of 'Teflon-tape'. You don't need to torque it any much at all. Just 'finger-strength' with a tiny wrench would do. You'd know about that 'feel' when you're at it later.
That is actually a very good idea So I did that. No problems. I just cut the tape in half lenghtwise to get the same width as the threads and gave it ~2 tight layers. The nut screwed in without problems.
