Using Pattex rust treatment on a very rusty Tilley X246A frame.

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by ColinG, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Just given the frame a second coat as per instructions and it seems to work very well so far. ALl the rust has turned black. It will then need 48hrs to dry before brushing off the dusty particles and priming ready for spraying with gold paint.

    Photos to follow.
     
  2. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    That would suggest the Pattex treatment contains phosphoric acid which reacts with the rust to for stable iron phosphate, which is black...
     
  3. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    That is what I read online too.

    I was worried at first because I bought it from Lidl but as most rust treatments seem to be based on phosphoric acid, I think it'll work OK. Of course, as the active ingredient is Phosphoric acid, I could just as easily have used Coca-Cola and it would have had the same effect - probably! Would the sugar and other added ingredients have interfered with the process? Anyone know or tried tis? I know you can clean coins in a glass of Coke.

    Anyway, tonight after a dust down, I will use a red oxide primer in preparation for the final gold spray.
     
  4. Michel

    Michel Subscriber

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    when i have a steel rusty part, I usualy qwench it one night in citric acid (this is not a very powerfull acid)
    then you put the part in a ultrasonic cleaner to take out the black surface
    then, you dry it rapidly (with a blowtorch or on the kitchen fire) and you are able to do the rust treatment
    with this product or another one
     
  5. george

    george Subscriber

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    Tell you one thing Coke is good at removing: battery acid! Around the terminals. Been there, done that.:mrgreen:
     
  6. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hmmmm, I keep hearing about ultrasonic cleaners, but which ones are best? Any thoughts?
     
  7. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Here's the rust treatment I bought from Lidl. I can't remember how much it cost but it was no more than a few quid.

    IMG_2407.JPG

    And after two coats, this is the result.

    IMG_2405.JPG

    There are dark patches where the solution has turned the rust into iron phosphate and grey patches which I think is where there was still some paint still bonded to the surface or where the rust wasn't so pronounced. Anyway. it's only had 24 hours to fully cure so painting will have to wait till tomorrow. Also, before priming I think I'll clean the surface with fine wire wool.

    It doesn't look like it but the surface of the metal is now quite smooth which I wasn't expecting given the state it was when I did my initial clean. I used a rotary brass wire brush in my cordless drill to remove as much of the flaky iron oxide as I could.

    I will clean the brass collars after I've painted the frame... I think. I'll have to think about what's easiest and best.

    IMG_2406.JPG
     
  8. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    That's lead sulphate as far as I'm aware...
     
  9. george

    george Subscriber

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    Welll, it worked!:lol:
     
  10. Nonzo

    Nonzo Subscriber

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    Thanks for the rust treatment tip, Colin.

    I am curious as to why you intend painting the cage gold. Was the original not silver? I'd also be interested to hear what paint you intend to use - spraycan or spraygun? I ask because I have an X246 that is in need of a fettle (when time permits...)
     
  11. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I should have taken some photos of the cage when I first got it... and the rest of the lantern as well. It had spent maybe 30 years in a damp coal shed at the bottom of someone's garden in Fort William. Anything that can corrode will suffer pretty badly up here on the West Coast of Scotland and it won't take that long either!

    When I got the lanterns (a 246A and a B) neither had globes and both were in a poor state. The cages were rusty as hell and both tanks had very patchy paint with verdigris on the uncovered parts. The chrome cage brushed up reasonably well but the paint on the 246A cage had completely gone and had been replaced by a nasty flaky surface of thick rust.

    Both tanks have since been polished because given the number of Tilleys there are in the word I figured why not! I plan to lacquer both in the summer when the weather is better.

    Here is the 246A tank...

    DSCF0053.JPG

    DSCF0054.JPG

    DSCF0055.JPG

    DSCF0056.JPG

    DSCF0057.JPG

    I understand the issues concerning originality vs polishing, and the risks involved (introducing tress cracks etc) but I'd never polished a tank before and this seemed like a good lamp to try it on. It cost me nothing, it's not particularly rare and it was quite dented. The results look quite nice. I was going to try beating out the dents, or some of them at least using a technique I saw on CCS but decided against it in the end as it doesn't fully work so I just left them as 'battle scars'!

    When I've painted the cage with a can of gold spray paint I'll post the results here.

    Colin
     
  12. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    First coat of primer, still wet! This will need gentle rubbing down with fine wire wool and a second coat before the gold goes on.

    DSCF0059.JPG

    DSCF0060.JPG

    DSCF0061.JPG

    Excuse the state of my garage/workshop. It's a proper bloody mess!
     
  13. Stuart Taylor

    Stuart Taylor Subscriber

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    Colin
    If you rub the paint down with steel wool, then clean it with something before applying the top coats. Otherwise you might find the paint reacts badly with any oil residue left by the wool. I normally use meths to clean metal after using steel wool but I never bother with primers so not sure how well that would work for you.
     
  14. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hmmmm, I'll have to see how it goes. The rust treatment was the last thing I used before priming it so hopefully there won't be any oil residue but we'll have to wait and see. I'll follow your advice though and I won't knock the surface down with wire wool before the second primer coat.
     
  15. Mackburner

    Mackburner United Kingdom Founder Member Subscriber

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    I don't mess about with primers either. For globe cages just a coat of Hammerite smooth in silver or black and then 30 minutes in the oven at around 180c. ::Neil::
     
  16. Nonzo

    Nonzo Subscriber

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    Thanks Colin. The tank has polished up beautifully, I must say. I presume that it is steel?
    Some interesting info on painting preferences too. I think I might try the Hammerite option (without priming ;)) on the cage of my 246 when I get around to that fettle.

    I look forward to seeing your gold topcoat....
     
  17. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Nonzo

    The tank should be brass.

    Tony
     
  18. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    The tank is brass and apart from the dents it looks OK. Some time ago I bought a polishing mop to attach to my bench grinder and it makes polishing brass and aluminium so much easier and achieves better results. Tonight when I get home it'll be time to use the gold spray!
     
  19. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    No, it's speculum plating over brass.

    :shock: WHAT!! =; [-X ](*,) ;) :lol:
     
  20. ColinG

    ColinG United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Wait... confusion reigns here... I'm painting the frame/cage gold which was the original finish which I discovered from the tiny fragments that were still left. The tank was painted but Ive stripped and polished it and thats how it'll stay.
     

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