Coleman Quick-Lite 427 Xmas fettle...soon arriving from the US

@MrAlexxx Heck of a saga Alex. Watching here with bated breath.

John

 

Boiling water as suggested by Henry is a good option.
I've experienced freeing up the steel ball in the nrv with just that.
Whatever's holding it could be anything, not just old varnished fuel or gummy residues. I've had the following before:-
-rust, oxidation, disintegrated leather bits, caked dirt, fine sand, clay/mud, tarry deposits and mixtures of them.
As long as you're not having one that was deliberately filled up with epoxy, encapsulating compounds or some fuel tank sealers, I would say its just a matter of time and patience.

 

Myn,

I hope you’re correct! I will surely find out during the coming weekend! I’ll boil first, then try the other options suggested here.

George, thanks. Next time I’ll try to position the flashing cursor within the text. It’s just the ‘sausage’ fingers on a small screen of the iPhone 7 that may prevent accuracy thought!

Presscall - yes, a saga it is... but what fun would it be if it was always an easy ride? I enjoy buying the odd wreck every now and again and hoping for the best.

I’ve now posted a Thank You letter to Santa. Will get to the North Pole by Friday hopefully.

 

This is such an interesting read - it's like a detective novel! Can't wait for the next chapter

 

@Alex74 ,
If you oil the leather cup and try the pump, are you able to get any air through the NRV?
If air could get through, it'll be easier to get the boiling water or any cleaning fluids around the steel ball as well.

 

Hi Myn,

yes I thought about that. Problem is the plunger head is covered in gunk and rust, so I need to treat it before installing a new leather. The screws are all seized up. See photo below. But I’ll give it a go this weekend. This lamp is going to take a bit longer I reckon....

Shall we introduce a ‘fettle of the year’ award for perseverance and for bringing back to life the most battered lamp?? Votes could be open to full members and marks could be awarded based on complexity of the project, rarity of the lamp and any spare parts, quality of the end result, and of course perseverance, etc etc. Not sure what the prize could be though...

 

I can see there's rust as well. Probably from the spring or washer piece. You don't want to force that into the nrv opening.
I'd say warm citric acid would clear a lot of things in there.

That is interesting.
Possible prize: an even tougher lamp project.

 

Don'tcha just love technology?! I remember when even an illiterate could follow instructions, just follow the pictures! Now you have to have a master's degree in engineering just to open a can of tuna fish!

 

Ha, progress, or not! More problems....

so I cleaned the pump rod by boiling in dilute citric acid for 10 min and installed a new pump leather. And with that I could ascertain there was no air going through the NRV valve.

The ball at the bottom of the tube would not move when pushed down with a wooden skewer, so I managed to unscrew the valve off the tank (Surprisingly it came off quite easily), and boiled that as well in dilute citric acid. Now the ball moves but fails to spring back up and it appears to be stuck ‘down’ with only a tiny bit of air going through the valve even when plunging very hard. So I removed the hex brass screw at the bottom and I’m boiling the valve again for 1 hour. Should that fail, is it worth taking the whole thing apart to take a closer look? How do I remove the lower section of the pump. The whole thing seems soldered in position....

 

Progress is progress even a problem is not completely solved.

When in situ, pressured air from the tank will push the ball back up to were it seats and hold in the pressure.

With the pump out in the open air, i.e. no resistance, operating it should be child's play.

If further boiling doesn't seem to be having a positive effect, it may be time for different tactics.

I can't see how it would be possible but perhaps there's something other than varnish-like fuel residue which is restricting the free passage of air, I'm thinking a very small piece of old pump leather.
Because of the tight bend in the tube which comes from the bottom of the pump, it could be difficult to get a wire though from the open end to see if you can dislodge any obstruction. It may be worth a try though.
A good hard blast of compressed air may also work if this option is available.

 

I can't remember any spring in mine with regards to the check ball. My 427 is in the gallery along with a picture of the pump removed. If it's a spring in there I couldn't get it out.

 

Thanks Henry and George. I’ll try with a wire then. Also this happened whilst pumping.....is the last bit of that brass screw supposed to have come loose, revealing the steel rod inside? It was all in one piece when I started...!

 

Err, no but don't let it worry you, it's old, these things happen. Make sure both parts are clean and solder them back together.

 

Ok Henry thanks. This lamp seems to resist being repaired with all its will!

 

Naaa. It's just testing your sense of humour.

 

Once again, I think I missed the point here, sorry...
I was talking about where that little check ball is located. I could not find any little spring there, just the check ball...

 

The steel ball should be freely 'rattling' inside the nrv when its fine. I don't think there's any spring inside.
You should be able to pump air through it easily.
With the nrv removed, you'll be able to blow air through the pump piece from the 'snorkel' tube at the end of it easily, even with lung power. Unless its blocked of course.
If it is, just a simmer(pump tube with nrv, plunger/cup removed) in concentrated lye solution would clear off any organic gunk in it, including leather bits.

 

This type of pump does not have a removable NRV.

Not posssible with this type of pump.

There most definitely is no spring !

@Alex74 Apologies, I don't know why this never registered before now. The hex screw is there to access the ball bearing which acts as the check valve. With the hex screw removed, the ball bearing should fall out. That hole is where the ball bearing went in during manufacture and that hole is where it will come out. If this is not happening, something is holding it so boil some more, poke about with a piece of wire or soak it in lye (caustic soda) as suggested by @MYN

 

Exactly, no spring. Mine didn't have any for sure! This is a good bit of engineering and I don't think you should have any problems getting this clear. All advice here is good, just keep plugging away.

 

Ahhh...yes. its a 427, not the later Coleman.
Anyway, since the whole pump assembly is removable from the fount, it should make repairs and cleaning easier than the later ones.

 

Great advise my friends! Thanks for all the tips. Yes, after further inspection I think it’s totally gummed up inside. The U tube seem clear though as I can feed a thin copper wire all the way in and round the bend. No sign of the ball out of the opening so I think we’ll have to try the lie solution. Extreme remedies for extreme gunk....! Problem is I haven’t got anything in the house today. I wonder if the local Tesco might sell something strong enough. Drain cleaner not based on conc sulphuric....

Henry...yes but I’m about to experience a sense of humour failure if that ball doesn’t fall out soon enough!

 

After rummaging under the sink, I found these. Forgot they were there...

 

@Alex74 Do you have an ultrasonic cleaner? I got a small one that I fill with water, dump some oxyclean in the water, turn the heat on and let it do it's thing for about an hour or so. I used this on my 427 and the check ball fell out! Maybe I got lucky... the oxyclean stuff is great.

 

Hi George,

I haven’t in afraid. I would have though ultrasonic baths cause pitting if used for a long time on metal parts? Due to cavitation/ bubble collapse? But I will consider this option, should the simple chemical soak prove ineffective! I’m about to soak it in late fir a few hours. Wish me luck!

 

I think the cleaning agent creates more of a chance for pitting than the hot water or bubbles. The oxyclean seems to work for me. I've never had problems with pitting but like I said maybe I was just lucky.
If you have a clear path when you run a small wire thru the air tube I'm not sure what's clogged... it must be the pump part, where the leather plunger is located.
Please bear with me, I get confused easily these days... lol, but do you have the little check ball in hand or you can't find it?

 

If the ball is still inside, it'll drop out once its free. Be careful when you're rinsing later. If it drops on the floor, it'll bounce off and you might never find it again. Or slip into a kitchen sink, drain hole or anything like that.

 

For chemical cleaning, gunk and oxidation removal, I usually proceed with the following general sequence:-
1. Organic solvent soak, carb cleaner, etc and rinse for preliminary removal of oils, greases, varnishes, etc.
2. Alkaline soak for complete removal of most organics and any invisible film left on the surface from the preceding step.
3. Acids treatment to remove any metallic oxidation. It can range from acetic, citric, oxalic, hydrochloric, sulphuric, nitric or even hydrofluoric acids depending on what I'm working on. The latter ones are extremely dangerous and corrosive. For lamps, citric acid is my preference.
4. Water rinse.
5. Mild alkaline rinse for residual acid removal.
6. Water rinse again.
7. Drying with methanol followed by acetone and evaporation.
8. Oiling if necessary.

 

Myn, that sounds like a degreasing procedure taken from an organic chemistry lab manual! Good stuff. I use methanol too to dry pieces at the end....

anyway, there is definitely progress. The room temp lye soak was ineffective although just some air was going through, so I repeated it with hot lye for 30 min and that did it. Air was now pumping through freely. There was never a sign of the little ball in the gunk that came out of the side hole upon pumping. Then I pumped Holts carburettor cleaner through and more gunk came out with a satisfying ‘plop’

Now the pump works a treat but when installed in the tank, it fails to retain air in (the piston pushes upwards after only a few strokes). I’m starting to fear there never was a check ball in there in the first place. I’m pretty sure I didn’t lose it as I was careful at each step. Can it be replaced?

one more issue. The fuel valve which Santa fixed for me, seemed clogged too (I can’t blow air through it with the control cock open). Would lye work, or perhaps a acupuncture needle?

But alas, progress this weekend!

 

Update. By shining the iPhone torch inside the side hole ( where the hex screw goes), you can see light clearly at the bottom of the pump cylinder ( ball seat illuminated), so there’s no ball behind it, presumably.

 

@Alex74 Hurrah, progress at last.

There was certainly a ball bearing in there when it left the factory. The reason why there isn't one in there now isn't important. The ball bearing is replaceable, look on the internet if your nearest bicycle shop can't help you. Of course you'll need to know the correct size and I'm afraid I can't help you here, I was going to measure the one in my pump but at the moment, I can't get the brass plug out to get at it but I can tell you that it will be an imperial size and between 1/16 and 3/32" (1.5875 - 2.38125 mm). Does anyone know the exact size ?

It may be a case of "suck it and see". I don't see why lye won't work but if you're going to poke about with a needle, bear in mind that the passageway is not "straight through".