Petromax HK150 mantle lifespan and alternatives

My HK150 runs like a champ, but the original Petromax 150 CP mantles I’ve been using only last an average of ten hours or so before they split apart near the top and require replacement, which gets quite expensive when considered together with the cost of fuel. Is it normal for the mantles to fail so quickly under normal use, and are there any known cheaper alternatives that can be used?

 

I believe you are using a stainless steel burner.
He's too strong.Swap it for a clay burner and the problem is solved.

 

Thank you, I’ll give that a try. I did indeed switch to a steel burner after the first time I lit the lamp. I bought it from an old lady who claimed to have only lit it once. It shot flames out of the hood and burned uncontrollably, which I discovered was due to the clay burner being cracked at the threaded base. I do have a new spare, so I’ll switch it before changing the mantle.

 

I’ve now replaced the burner with a brand new clay one and fitted a new Petromax mantle. For some reason, the lantern doesn’t seem to like the new burner. The mantle is now almost completely black and yellow flames surrounded it the whole time it was burning. The glass is now sooted around the top as well. I fitted the burner snugly and the mantle was installed properly, so I’m at a loss to understand why it’s behaving this way now.

 

If You compare size between steel and clay burner the steel one is higher, correct?
If so You need to adjust J-tube.

Regards Matti

 

Any way to determine that without sacrificing a brand new mantle? I can measure the steel burner, but the clay one has a mantle tied to it.

 

You have excess fuel.That means the jet bore is too big.Try a New 150 jet.The small holes in the clay burner must all be clear.

 

Mantles can also fail like what has been described, especially when you are running the lantern at full blast(higher pressure ranges).
Even more likely, if you are using stainless steel burner caps.
Stainless steel expands a lot more than ceramic burners when hot. Therefore, if the oxide mantles (which have a much lower thermal coefficient of expansion than any metals) had been snugly tied to the burners, they are likely to eventually break near the tops from the expansion. To reduce the chances of this happening, either use a ceramic burner or just tie the mantles a little 'loose' if you're using stainless steel burners.
Tie the mantles 'loose' in a way that is just sufficient to prevent them from dropping out of the burner but without the burnt-in mantles touching the edge around the burner's rim. From my experience, the loose-tied mantles would then be less likely to break in such a way as described earlier.

 

OK, there’s a lot to unpack from all this good advice .

I do have a wide range of spare parts for the lantern, so I could try a new jet (and needle?) if necessary. The thing is, the lantern was burning perfectly with the steel burner. There was never any trace of odor, no flame outside the mantle, and the light was brighter than that of a thousand sunbeams.

My thinking now is that I’ll try to carefully remove the soot from the hood with a small toothbrush without disturbing the mantle, blowtorch the mantle to burn off the carbon, and try lighting it again after installing a new jet. If that works, I’ll be happy enough. If not, I’ll go back to the steel burner and try “sagging” a new mantle.

About running the lantern at full blast, it’s true that I usually pressurize it exactly to the red line on the manometer. It has always run very well like that, but the tank gets VERY hot, to the point that I need to use an oven mitt to handle it. Is a lower pressure generally recommended?

 

My ceramic burner from my (unfettled) Optimus 100N measures some 22,5 mm in total.
When my ceramic burner cracked on my well working Optimus 1551 I changed to steel burner it also sooted the mantle. Adjust the height of J-tube if steel burner measures different.

Regards Matti

 

I found some of the ceramic burners are not made very well and a lot of holes are partially blocked with ceramic.
I used a piece of wire to clear the blockages by pushing and rotating carefully from the outside in every hole then blew out the little bits of ceramic this broke off the inside of any affected holes.

The burn pattern was then nice and even all around the burner.

I also had ceramic burners come loose so now use a little smear of fire cement to secure them.

 

Running at too low a pressure isn't ideal too. You'd have less heat being transfered to the vaporizer which, isn't too good for proper vaporization of the fuel. At bad instances, the flame can suddenly become yellow or sooty at too low an operating pressure.
When you're getting very large yellow and sooty flames after switching to a clay burner, the root cause won't usually be the burner but something else. Too much fuel might be getting through a leaky jet or simply due to an enlarge jet orifice.

 

I have never had a HK150 but I have many other Px style lanterns. None of the tanks get so hot that I cannot touch them.

 

Well flames all over point to not enough pre-heat or opening the valve to early.
Distance jet-J-tube intake can be mearuerd with any acces the the burner.

Did you check the clay burner for "debris" ? All new stuff comes from China and it is manditory to check for any left overs from manufacturing.
Besides this all: the 150cp lantern is known for its problems by construction.

 

I got the lamp cleaned up and installed a brand new 150 jet. The clay burner had come slightly loose so I retightened it. That’s one thing I prefer about the steel burner—it stays fixed in place. I don’t know if the root problem is the loosening of the clay burner, but I’ve just retested the lantern and the symptoms persist.

I suppose either I need to try some fire cement (which I don’t have) or switch back to the steel burner at this point.

 

I have used a mantle tie as a thread filler on a chinese clone Px with the same problem - much like plumbers tape. It seemed to work

 

Nice, it’s a good thing I’ve saved the bits I’ve trimmed off from the three mantles I’ve installed since yesterday . I tied the first mantle a bit too loosely and it fell off the burner shortly after lighting it.

Right now I’m back in business with the steel burner, using my very last mantle. I hope it lasts at least long enough for me to replenish my inventory.

The lamp seems to be running perfectly at just 0.5 bar of pressure. The tank is still very hot but somehow I think this may be “normal” as there doesn’t appear to be anything at all wrong with the way the lamp is working. I do suspect the problem with the clay burner is that it doesn’t fully seal in the threaded burner housing (or whatever it’s called). I’ve set the clay burner safely aside with the blackened mantle still intact. Some day I may test it after torching off the soot/carbon and installing it with some mantle tie remnants used as thread locker.

Thanks for all the helpful advice and comments!

 

Is the currently-produced 829/500CP much better?

 

The problems lay in the quality (controls) of the nowadays manufacturing.
In the old days the production standards where higher and quality controls better. That is why old clay burner heads don't have a problem and new ones have.
I once bought new clay heads, I thought they where 250cp, but comparing them with the old ones they missed a complete thread !

The problems of the 150cp (clones) are basic that the overall dimensions are not correct. Especially in the distance between jet and J-tube.
The standard rapid works fine in the 500cp configuration but is way overkill in the 150cp version. Air flow is another one and it is known that the height of the globe cage is not always correct. There are (150cp) badges around which have a to short height.

I don't own a new far east made 500cp lantern so I can't judge about the real thing but general consensus is that the old ones where better in quality.
If you want a 500cp version Petromax: look for an ex Bundeswehr (BW) matt version in steel case. Or better an AIDA or Hipolito 250cp lantern.

 

Thanks for all that information, WimVe. I just may be in the market for another lantern at the moment. As far as the Hipólito models are concerned, in the absence of a readily available H202, would you recommend either the H302 or H502 as a worthy alternative?

 

My H502 is excellent but often much too powerful and noisy for the situation.
I have considered converting to an H302 but then I would most likely want to go back the other way.
So it stays as it is - comes out when a big gun is needed.

 

My personal favourite for a balance of reliability/quality/parts availability and not being too noisy is the 350/350CP Optimus lantern. Or a 1350/350 if you want a rapid starter.
Otherwise for quietness, reliability, simplicity and ease of maintainenace a Vapalux/Bialddin or a Tilley Guardsman. The only issue with these is finding a vapouriser should you need one.

 

I will keep those in mind. I could have just picked up a very nice, working, Tilley Guardsman locally a few days ago, but resisted the urge. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

Today is a happy day with the little Petromax. After losing yet another (loosely tied) mantle to the rage of the steel burner, I decided to have a closer look at the clay burner. Sure enough, several of the holes along the outer perimeter were clogged and needed to be reamed out with a needle. After doing that and following Fireexit1’s tip on using a scrap of mantle tie as plumber’s tape, the lantern seems to be running quite well so far. I don’t have any flame outside of the mantle. Hopefully this will be a lasting solution and the HK150 and I will enjoy many precious moments together . I appreciate all the wisdom you’ve shared with me.

 

Sounds hopeful ! I cannot claim credit for the mantle tie trick - it was somebody here who suggested it to me a couple of years ago. Such is the way of knowledge.

 

I use the "mantle tie" trick too.
But you can also use alu foil or exhaust kit or check before fire her up if the burner is still fixed enough.
You can do that without destroying the mantle.
Ok, it has some dependecy of finger size and control over those fingers by the brain and eyes but it is possible.

 

Yes, before using the mantle ties as thread sealer, I was in the habit of screwing the clay burner down tight without damaging the mantle, but I still ended up with yellow flames all around the base of the burner. It seems like the threads have massive tolerances or something—they engage very loosely and then you have to have a 100% perfect seal against the base, which evidently doesn’t work in practice.

 

These seem like nice choices. I’ve just bought a very beautiful early Guardsman model from England and should be receiving it any day now. Don’t these use the 606 vapouriser, which can still be ordered directly from Tilley (should the need arise)?

 

The modern production ones suffer from some quality issues. If however it turns out bad they will normally just send another. Most people here will favour "new old stock". But there is a lot of advice on this site about getting more life from these, and if you are going to be a typical collector/user you will not wear one out.

 

If you do not have a large stock of mantles at hand, I'd suggest that it is better to first light the lantern without the mantle attached.
That way, you'd know in advance if the lantern / burner, etc setup is working correctly before you decide to attach the mantle. If the setup is correct, the flamelets from the burner would be pale blue. If it isn't, or not exactly in order, the overall flame would be yellow or even sooty orange.
That procedure had saved many mantles from being sacrificed.