A question about asbestos: I once found a Tito Landi lamp. It is not a pressure lamp but some people here may know. It is the alcohol version. I have read someplace that there is a small amount of asbestos behind its knob. Is this dangerous? Should it be removed somehow or better not touch it? Can I safely (with respect to asbestos) use this lamp? (if I can make a mantle of course...)
@Antonis Tsolomitis No problem with the little asbestos on a Tito Landi lamp, it's just a sealing braid at the control lever. For the sleeves, I can explain how to make one from an original Peerless sleeve, or a Chinese copy (I use Chinese copies )
Thank you. Please do explain about the mantles/sleeves. I guess I can use Petromax or Coleman mantles which I already have instead of the peerless ones.
It's better to use a rigid mantle on a Tito Landi. Personally I use Aladdin gaslight mantles since they are easy to get on eBay. (a fresh search) You just need to carefully cut of the metal frame, and then it's just to hang the mantle directly on Tito's fork. As seen e.g. in this post, picture two.
Aladdins are expensive and from the ebay search I see they mostly come from US with a big amount for shipping (35 minimum). So I would maybe better learn how to make one from a regular mantle as @Sellig33 suggests. But I will study the post you suggest @Carlsson
In case if you are working with a lot of dry asbestos, just be careful not to stir or cause any to abruptly crumble and result in its dust or microfibrils becoming airborne. Hold your breath and get away from the area until the dust settles. You can exhale but do not breathe-in. You can resume breathing normally once you are in non-contaminated atmosphere. You can quite safely touch asbestos with your fingers or hands. It isn't a contact poison that can get absorbed into your skin. Just be sure you thoroughly clean them and ensure no micro fibres or fibrils get embedded on your skin.(not always easy). You need to at least have a certain working technique if you happen to be one of those guys who don't have a habit of wearing PPE. Do not handle them without gloves especially when you have skin lesions on your fingers or hands. If you have PPE,..a good face mask, gloves, etc, wear them. If the asbestos is pre-soaked with some liquids(oils, water, etc), then it becomes safer to handle,... in case we sometimes tend to get a little clumsy. You need to keep in mind that the asbestos microfibrils must be prevented from getting into your actively regenerative system and especially in direct, injurous/intrusive contact with newly developing cells. They can somehow cause your cells to grow abnormally, and possibly leading to tumours and becoming cancerous in future.
Thanks @MYN for the information. I do know that I must avoid breathing asbestos this is why I asked about Tito Landi. When I got that lamp I did not know it had some asbestos. Trying to see how it works, I read stuff on the internet and realized that it does have some small quantity behind its knob. So I packed it and put it away waiting to get some more knowledge about this. It is still packed away. @Sellig33 says that there is no problem with this (as long as I do not open the knob I guess). My concern is twofold: can I have this lamp at display in my living space safely? And can I light it up sometimes to enjoy without concerning myself with the fact that it has some asbestos? When in operation (lit) is there any possibility that asbestos may escape from the knob out of the burner?
@Antonis Tsolomitis , I would say, there is no reason get paranoid over a tiny amount of asbestos behind your Tito Landi knob. It shouldn't be likely to crumble if you leave it as it is. Very unlikely to escape in sufficient amounts to create a hazardous environment. Some older heater lamps have asbestos mantles. Those might present some cause for concern if they ever get broken and happen to be blown and spreaded all over the place by strong drafts. Otherwise, they are still relatively safe if handled carefully. Unless if handling asbestos becomes a daily routine, such as a worker in an asbestos mine or a person installing asbestos insulation in some industrial or commercial premises, the risk level of exposure for most of us in the hobby is almost negligible.
@WimVe Because of ignorance. Because I do not know the internals of Tito Landi. The lamp is in sound condition. It does not show any damage at all.
But you know something about lamps and all lamps have a knob/hand wheel which operates a valve (open/close) or moves a rod for nozzle cleaning. All these have a seal which is hold in place or pushes against some kind of sealing material. This can be a rubber ring, asbestos fibre, graphite cord or something else. Knowing how this works is crucial for working with lamps. I would like to show a picture but I have none available but will try to find one.
A Peerless mantle and some tools Unsew the base of the mantle Tighten the closure cord as much as possible Using the hook pass the cord to the opposite Do the same for the second Ajust to the desired length and secure with 2 knots
Great! This looks as working. So you do not tie at the bottom on the burner, you just use the thread to hang the mantle above and around the burner loosely. I was thinking of using the L(arge) version of Coleman Campingas mantles which have a thread at both the top and the bottom. But it did not occur to me that the thread could hold the mantle as hanging. Nice!
Exactly! Which means that the fuel reaches the sealing material, and this material stops the fuel from escaping through the knob. This implies that the fuel, in the case of the asbestos sealing and at least theoretically, may "steal" asbestos fibers from the sealing material which can not do in the case of graphite. If this can happen some fibers may reach the burner if they get carried away by the fuel vapors. I understand that this is a theoretical description and maybe I am overthinking about this and the escaping amounts are either exactly zero or negligible. But it is a theory. Isn't it?
If you're somewhat concerned about the dangers of having asbestos around, then you might be horrified see what I did to my mashed-up Primus :- I had actually wrapped the U-mixer tube of my Primus with the nasty asbestos cord to serve as heat insulation. Note that the colour isn't white anymore. That's because I've also smeared it overall with copper antiseize compound. I was neither wearing any gloves nor a face mask when I did that. That's not to imply it is safe at all. Just to say that it isn't any more dangerous than the Thorium-based mantles that you'd be using in your hobby.
Ha ha ha ha, OK, you are very brave indeed! (by the way, I avoid thorium mantles too ) I have children in my house. No thorium, no asbestos.
No it isn't. You need the packing to prevent leakage outside the valve. This is "always" the non pressure side and will not flow back due to the packing.
See, I told you I do not know the internals. But still I miss something from what you say: Assume that the lamp is in operation (lit). Alcoholic vapors travel upwards with final destination the burner. The knob can stop the vapors and extinguish the lamp. So the vapors meet something that it is controlled by the knob and closes or opens the flow. You say that these vapors do not come in contact with the asbestos packing? Is this what you say? If they do not came in contact, then what is the asbestos packing doing there? What would escape if the asbestos packing was not there? Something I do not know and I get confused.
Under normal circumstances, fuel or alcohol, be it in vapour or sometimes liquid form, will certainly come into contact with the asbestos sealing. The asbestos is not soluble in any of the likely fuels or water. It is also near impossible or extremely unlikely to be carried away by the feeble fuel vapour stream from its intended place of assembly. Even after prolonged usage, and say, the asbestos has become somewhat physically compromised or a little crumbly, any loose particles would still remain largely in place. If, for whatever reasons, any of it ever reaches the burner, only the fuel vapour would be burnt off to produce gaseous products(Carbon dioxide, water, etc). None of the asbestos would get vaporized in any way. It is quite refractory and incombustible. The flame of such incandescent mantle lamps is rather feeble and non-turbulent. So, there won't sufficient disturbance to lift or turn any 'escaped' asbestos airborne. In short, such risks are basically negligible.
This makes sense to me @MYN because if the asbestos seals, it must come in contact with the material that is sealed, unless it does it in a very clever way that I could not think of.
Hello everyone. Here I am again with the usual million euro questions. I don't want to seem pedantic, but i have always said to myself: "If you don't know or don't know how something works, ask someone who does". .... and I always felt good!!!! The only certain thing I know is that here on CPL there are a lot of people who know how these damned oops blessed lamps work. So I ask everyone about asbestos (apart from mantles): Which lamps contain asbestos in their mechanisms???? Maybe none, some, many, all???? An advert in past years read: "If you know it you avoid it, if you know it it doesn't kill you". Naturally, any information shared will increase prudence and safety. You could add a symbol in The Lamp Reference Gallery that indicates the presence of asbestos in a lamp. .....good job everyone (and forgive my bizarre questions)
The only places I have found it is mantle ties, tilley heater mantles, and older coleman generators. The only other related place I have encountered it was in a british coal miner's safety lamp top gasket.
As far as I'm aware of, almost all lamps and lanterns from past eras that have any kind of non-flammable, fibrous stuffings, packings, seals, washers, etc in their construction, basically contain asbestos. Until more recent years(1970s, 80s), no other material had been found to be as versatile, as available or low in cost. Not very much was known during those times about asbestosis and mesothelioma. No OSHAs, no EU-directives...it was probably a large part of the reason why such classic devices could proliferate in the way it had been in the past.
I did find a number of large washers in some of the Continental donut-type lamps. One of the largest was roughly 10 x 8 x 0,5 cm and it was used to seal the vaporizer from the cast iron inner casing of the lamp. Strings of asbestos were used to seal gland nuts at valves. Easy to use, cheap, it did it's job and helped to deal with clearances / gaps between the single parts. Thus parts did not need to be manufactured accurately. The dangers of the various kinds of asbestos were not known and it took some time to find (and to prove) the interrelation between asbestos fibers and some kinds of cancer developing some 30-40 years later. In a number of lanterns such as the Einheitslaterne it was just used as a heat shield in the top hood. Erik
