I think it was in response to my fabrication of a ‘dummy’ Tillite pre-heater to adorn my Tilley X359 equipped with a blanking plug that Tony Press got in touch to offer me some Tillite components to ‘have a play with’ I think he said. Making the ‘dummy’ Tillite was covered HERE and fabricating a reproduction hood and air buttons appeared in THIS presentation of the finished lantern. So, the Tillite parts from @Tony Press comprised three partially-dismantled pre-heaters. All three had the pivoting seal but the brass pivot pin was missing in each, though Tony had included two pins in the package. This is a pivot pin and above is the hole it fits in. I saw no sign of brazing filler so presume it was an interference fit originally, pressed in - which would explain why they invariably come adrift. A useful discovery (in terms of providing access to silver solder the pin back in place) was to find that the component it fits in clips into place in the pre-heater shroud, three ‘pips’ in the shroud locating in corresponding holes in the outer lip of the component. The end cap firmly secures the assembly. Pin silver soldered in position, snd alongside it is the pivoting seal. I cut a chamfer on the seal’s pivot slot to ensure that the fillet of silver solder that had formed on the inside surface didn’t prevent the seal from bedding down properly. The action of opening and closing the pre-heater jet outlet. The assembly installed in the pre-heater shroud. The action is operated by the pin (arrow points to it) on this component surrounding the jet outlet, the brass pin just mentioned acting as a rotation stop in that cutaway arc (clock face 11 to 4 in the photo). Assembled and installed in the lantern. Holds air pressure and no fuel leaks. Alas, running rich … … though it got there in the end. In one of several Tillite CPL threads there’s a post suggesting the pickup tube may restrict the air inlet in the torch if inserted too far, so I’ll look at that to see if I can improve the burn. A final note. Turns out my ‘dummy’ Tillite wasn’t too far off dimensionally from the real thing, though I didn’t then have an example as a pattern. A shade too long and too large a diameter by a touch. My profound thanks to Tony, who wouldn’t take payment for the parts. Much appreciated Tony. I hope my fettling effort has gone some way to honour your generosity and kindness in responding to my X359 project as you have. John
Cheers @JEFF JOHNSON @ROBBO55 Tony and @Buggerlugs Update … proved to be as you’ve described it Tony, because the bakelite(?) component allowed an air leak to occur when the tank was fully pressurised and the lantern had been running for a while. Clue was that a lantern that would previously run for hours on a good head of pressure (blanking plug installed) with the Tillite installed de-pressurised in half-an-hour. Confirmation was provided by extinguishing the lantern, raising the pricker on the control knob and shutting the Tillite valve to hold pressure, pressurising the tank and inverting the lantern. A tell-tale trickle of fuel came through the valve. The certain suspect was the bakelite component so I’ve resolved to laminate a 1mm thick piece of viton sheet to it. The bakelite component and viton abraded on garnet paper to provide an adhesive ‘key’. Lightly clamped in a G-clamp while the two-part epoxy adhesive (Araldite) cures. More to follow …
@presscall That piece, plus the press-fitted micro-stud*, are the reason the blanking plug exists. The $$ cost of the plug compared to the labour of refurbishing the Tillite or buying a new one was an easy solved equation for railway workshops and the like. Best of luck with the repairs. If anyone can think of a material that could replace the offending bakelite let me know. *John, for perspective, it would be good to give the readers the dimensions of the “micro-stud”. Cheers Tony
From this post Tilley X359 – Fettle I have two X359's and both soot up the glass and mantle if I use the Tillite so I preheat with metho. I'm not sure what the original seal was made from. I made a new seal for both of them from the 1.5mm gasket material I use for the burner washer on kero stoves. Bought it on ebay High Temperature Gasket Material A4 300mm x 214mm x 1.5mm A4 SIZE 1/16 THICK | eBay The seals have been in two lanterns for about two years and still work. But they don't get a lot of action. 1.5mm gasket material, the slots for the pivot pins are 2mm dia. and I think 2.5mm for the jet hole? They are fiddley to make and dimensions / curves are critical to a successful operation. And a warning, don’t reassemble it without the seal and try twisting it! The device is spring loaded and without the seal the two surfaces come together. Twisting will shear off one of the pins. I know!
@ROBBO55 There's a member here who has world class skills in a completely different form of craft, but he does have a laser cutter... . Cheers Tony
Because of the reasons already stated, the 4 of my X359 lamps that have the Tillite are just shelf queens, it's a shame though. I haven't been lucky enough to have one working properly, so I see why Tilley and others put in the blocking plug.
Micrometer readings are 2.4mm for the diameter of most of the length of the pivot pin, 2mm diameter of the reduced section press-fitted in its related componen. Its length is 5mm overall and of that length the reduced diameter takes up 1.5mm. The ‘laminated’ seal component works, holding air pressure for a lengthy firing. Here was the test without the frame/burner/hood. After the firing, soot deposits on the glass were disappointing however. One of the Tillite’s Tony gave me had a crack in the nylon mounting hexagon/threaded part and I decided it would best serve by sectioning it to reveal the jet ‘innards’. Made from recycled Dinky Toy metal! Well, maybe not, but an alloy very similar - mazak perhaps. Its hose barb was corroded and brittle (the bits below the main body halves) and the air feed passages to create an atomised fuel output can be seen flanking the central fuel channel. It leaves me with no hope of improving combustion by reducing the jet outlet. I had thought of a hypodermic needle insert as I do to resize ‘lipstick’ vaporisers and other jets but that requires silver soldering, which here would result in a pool of alloy under the blowtorch flame. Epoxied in place, given there’s no appreciable heat at that point? Maybe, but a job for another day on the remaining Tillite - possibly. @ROBBO55 Thanks, yes, I read your original post along with every other CPL reference to Tillites. I’d thought of cutting out a seal from some similar gasket material but laminating thin viton to the existing seal offered the prospect of a mere trimming of the viton to the underlying shape. I was confident too that viton would make a good seal.
@Tony Press @ROBBO55 @Buggerlugs All’s well, the Tillite performing as it should and without smoking up the glass. Simply, I’d not been allowing the pre-heater to burn for long enough and a flaring burner flame had deposited the soot and not the Tillite itself. I got a copy of the instructions and it specifies a one minute pre-heat, pumping all the while. That’s longer than other pre-heater torches I’ve encountered on lamps - or it certainly felt so! The Tillite burned cleanly, with a blue flame and the mantle ignited without hesitation. Here it is after a Tillite pre-heat. John
Very well done indeed @presscall . Those Tilley X359s with the Tillite-8781 feature are both intriguing and provoking . I missed all the earlier fun. Repairs are certainly not easy. The spring loaded mechanism plus the presence of 2 microstuds brings an almost instant recollection of an old electrical receptacle or socket of sorts to me. Not to mention a piece of ubiquituous brown bakelite-like material. Really a lot resemblance to the materials used in the Electrical industries in the past. I think the sealing material needs to be stiff enough to resist too much flexing yet soft enough to allow some degree of contact intimacy. They also need to be very smooth and able to resist surface deformation for sliding efficiency. Some fibre-reinforcements are usually necessary. The gasket material that Martin @ROBBO55 used was Klingersil C-4400. Those range of gasket materials was one of the possibilities that crossed my mind earlier too. Some are also graphite-loaded and these are even smoother to the touch. I don't know what Tilley used in the original Tillites. It could be some kind of Pertinax-like or cellulose fibre / paper-reinforcerced phenolic resin. Or even something similar to classic brown PCBs or some electrical insulation boards of old.
Me neither. I used the term ‘bakelite’ loosely, but you’re right, the device’s internal components are very reminiscent of contemporary electrical fittings equivalents. Frankly, I doubt if the component in question ever had much better sealing properties than it has now, which would explain the early and widespread failure rate of production examples. A patent for the device hasn’t surfaced as yet. It would make interesting reading!
@MYN Some further observations … Here’s one of those seals/shutter valve components in close-up to show the compressed fibrous/resin composition and also the indentation created by the raised rim surrounding the jet outlet of the jet outlet block it pivots over. The seal/shutter must have had a capacity to deform to allow that indentation to occur. The quality it lacked, I suggest, was sufficient elasticity to repeatedly ensure it returned to its former flat surface when pivoted to the ‘open’ position. I considered making one out of the material I use to make stove burner washers. It probably has the required elasticity (‘memory’?) to seal reliably over several cycles, but lacks the mechanical strength to prevent the ‘ears’ of the pivoting slots from breaking off. To conclude, observations on the Tillite’s filtering arrangements, for fuel and presurised air above the fuel. The fuel filter. Four air inlets surrounding the fuel pickup tube. In the body of the jet casting upstream of those air inlets, a fine-weave gauze filter - damaged here by removal from the Tillite, but a full annulus originally, close fitting against the fuel hose barb and jet body diecasting.
Good closeup photo @presscall Is that shutter seal material indentable by fingernail pressure alone? That'd provide a rough clue to its hardness level. I'm not sure but it does not appear from my experience, that a regular high-temp gasket sheet would provide sufficient strength to resist breaking at the 'ear-slots' against the microstud stoppers. I don't have experience with the Tillite. Does the spring compression play a role to ensure adequate pressure for sealing? There are several types of substitute materials that cross my mind. I won't be entirely sure if they would perform better than the original material for that particular application:- PTFE Sheet - Carbon Filled | PAR Group Graphite Sheet Reinforced with Wire Mesh - Products - Hysealing Company Limited Reinforced PTFE and Compressed PTFE Gaskets
It’s not, but whether it could when new I don’t know. Absolutely, yes. It keeps the seal in close contact with the diecast component, but it’s of only moderate compression strength so that it won’t inhibit the necessary opening and closing action. There’s no external lever on the pre-heater and on/off is done by rotating the body of the device between finger and thumb. Tillite in action.
Hmmm...in that case, then probably a material that is a tad bit softer might improve chances of reliable sealing. From the looks of the compression spring with respect to the thickness and overall diameter of the spring, it doesn't appear to me that it'd produce a very strong force to deform a material that is too hard. Do you think it is sufficient to force a piece of shutter that's made of HDPE to adequately seal against the diecast surface?
@MYN There’s a chance it would, due to the waxy feel to that plastic. I’ll be using the lantern often in the next few weeks to confirm the durability of the viton and will dismantle the pre-heater after that time to inspect it. If the existing shutter laminated with 1mm thick viton serves well it’s the easiest solution, requiring only trimming of the viton to the underlying shape rather than cutting out a fresh shutter out of the material chosen.
@presscall I think as long as the Araldite doesn't give way and the Viton sliding surface is well-lubricated, it'd last quite long.
Thankfully it doesn’t, during the pre-heat (which would make switching it off problematical!) or for the duration the lamp is lit. I’ll do that of course, but couldn’t resist checking it after pretty intensive use over the past couple of days. I’m pleased that there’s no apparent abrasion of the viton or signs of de-lamination of the viton from the material it’s bonded to. There’s an obvious indention left by the jet surround that it mates up against, but the inherent elasticity of the viton ensures it re-forms as much as necessary to make a seal. Here’s the component it slides over under moderate spring compression.
That is neat work, @presscall The Viton is resilient and should be quite durable from my experience. The only potential failure point which come to mind might be the bonding between the Viton and the fibre-reinforced phenolic shutter using Araldite. I suppose you were using Araldite epoxy? Either the fast 5-min or the slow curing 90min?
@MYN The slow-curing Araldite, which I’ve more faith in than the ‘rapid’, maybe unjustifiably. JB Weld would be my next choice.
@presscall If the Araldite isn't as durable as what you're hoping for, then there is certainly an adhesive that is specifically suited. Epoxies aren't exactly meant to bond fluoroelastomers such as Viton/FKM. The specifically formulated ones are based on different chemicals. Example of a Viton adhesive: Fluorodyn THA-3000.. Fluorodyn THA-3000 High Temperature and Chemically Resistant Glue for Viton | eBay
@MYN That’s very helpful information, thank you. I’ll continue with my test use of the lantern, reassured that there’s the optimum choice of adhesive available if necessary.
If the Araldite-bonded area is not subjected to too much shearing stress or repetitive bending, then it should hold for a while. Then Viton piece should not de-laminate too soon from the phenolic shutter. Yes, the quick setting epoxies, whichever the brand, are usually weaker and less reliable than those slow-curing ones.
