I have a Hipolito 250CP coming from my grandfather working on it to make it work again and I am missing the rapid lighter tube which is obsolete in the UK. Any help would be great.
Maybe measure what diameter you need and see what else would fit? It would do until an original comes along
Grigorios, The Hipolito rapid preheater shown in Reinhard's pictures isn't just obsolete in the UK but virtually everywhere else. The newer styled preheaters with the toggle levers found on Petromax, Hipolito and other similar clones are still available, ie., from Petromax.com and other sources. However, these won't fit your overall Hipolito due to different cut-outs on the lantern's collar/frame. Anyway, you won't need the rapid for it function. Just preheat with the spirit cup and keep the rapid's port plugged. Unless if anyone could offer you an old spare, it is quite unlikely to find these old rapids as separate spare parts. I don't think anyone makes reproductions of these.
Thank you all for the comments, I will follow the advise and try to fabricate something similar made from brass pipe. I will finish up the service and cleaning first and I will post some pics
@Grigorios Makrakis , Do you still have the lower portion of the rapid preheater with its knob attached? Can't see clearly in your picture. If it is only the upper flame tube that is missing, then I think it should not too difficult to fabricate a piece out of a piece of suitably-sized brass tube. The lower portion would be tricky to make without proper machine-shop equipment.
Yes I do have the valve with the knob, just missing the upper part, I would assume that the upper part is just the ignition champer and the oval shape hole at the brass pipe is for letting the air in to the chamber to mix with fuel?
Also looking on the fuel tank pump champer there is a safety valve at the bottom of the champer to keep the pressure inside the tank, do you know if that part should get serviced and if a special tool needed? See picture attached, thanks in advance for any help
Yes, a specially-shaped tool is required. You can also make you rown version like many have done here. Just type 'NRV' in the forum's search function to find the many variants. Example, on one of them: : My NRV removal tools ***NRV means Non-Return-Valve. For the exact size for head-fit, perhaps you could PM @Reinhard or someone else having this exact model.
Here is a parts list from February 21,1956. This lamp was offered under the brand name Hipolito and Fama,and towards the end of its production run in the early 1970s,also by Geniol . The parts can only be found on the secondhand market,but they are rare.
Thanks for the info, where can I buy in the UK good quality mantles for this lamp? I only found the ones base-camp site sells, are any other options? Do you know any numbers for mantles will fit the Hipolito 250cp?
I would stick with base camp. Although I don't live in the UK they have a good service. Do you burn your lantern this bad (pic 2) on purpose ? The needle should be down all the way. Looking at the knob position this seems not to be so.
I would echo Wim's sentiments. Basecamp has a lot of experience and will source best solutions. I have never had anything from them that did not please. However if you can find them Coleman 99's would do the trick as will Peerless 22 and 22A's . I get my Peerless mantles fron NZ https://justmantles.co.nz/product/376/ The most annoying feature of a cheap mantle is the string snapping or not being long enough. The second most annoying is blowing holes in one, but that is not always down to quality. Looking at your picture - that mantle should be glowing bright white, and the fact it is not has nothing to do with the quality of the mantle. Remember that the control wheel is there only to move the needle up and down and to shut off fuel from the tank at the same time, not control brightness etc. It should be fully open, with the tit pointing upwards (assuming it is on correctly)
Yes I've realised the distance between the nozzle and mixing tube wasn't the correct one but was too late and already destroyed two mantles, Ive set the correct distance and adjusted the needle and now need a new mantle that's why the question. I will update when new mantles arrived and try again.
As long as you are learning it is not wasted time or money ! - many of us here get the super-cheap mantles for testing, and fit good ones for long-term use. The rubbish string on the cheap ones can be replaced by wire ties or similar.
Second attempt to start the lamp did go much better, adjusted the gap between the nozzle and the mixing tube at 14mm, found this number from a previous post but was referred to 500CP lamp so not sure if this is the correct distance. Also noted that the mixing tube is turning red from the heat, is this normal? The mantle I am using is the Veritas 3776.Apart of that seems to work smoothly, no leaks and holding pressure.
On 350cp and 500cp lamps the gap between nozzle and mixing tube is the same so yes, it's correct. Yes it is normal. As long as the lantern is working smoothly, there's nothing to worry about.
It might not be. The J-tube of a normally working Petromax don't usually glow red. You need to inspect it again. There could some fuel-air burning inside it. Depending on the severity, sometimes it might eventually destroy the J-tube. If there's really some burning inside the tube, it might sound somewhat louder than normal. Almost like 'growling'. Other symptoms:- There might be a flame halo outside the mantle, which is what appears to me in the above picture. It might or might not eventually soot up the mantle. It usually won't be burning at its maximum 'brightness' under the above condition. Try to operate the lantern without its outer hood and see if the red glow on the J-tube disappears. At the same time, check if there's any difference in the mantle's glow whenever the J-tube's red glow is not present.
I removed the hood and the J-tube is not turning red now, when put it back it starts to become red. So where to start? Decrease the distance of the nozzle to the J-tube or replace the nozzle? Also @Reinhard could you please send some pictures and dimensions of the rapid preheater tube I am missing to try make on from a brass tube? Thanks
Most importantly, when you were running the lantern without the outer hood, how was the mantle burning compared to when running with the hood attached? The usual distance between the nozzle(jet/gas tip) and the J-tube inlet for a 200/250HK or CP Petromax is 12.2mm +/-0.5mm. However, this is not an absolute must. It often depends on the particular lantern. It can be varied considerably to suite and to whichever gives you the best results. Anyway, did you adjust the distance to 14 mm for some specific reasons? I'm not sure whether the nozzle or jet's orifice is worn or enlarged. I suppose you're using the original piece on your lantern? If worn, it might discharge more fuel than what a 250cp jet should and would be burning richer than normal. Could this partly be the reason you adjusted the distance or gap to 14 mm? If the jet or nozzle orifice is worn, it needs to be replaced. There can be several possible reasons why the J-tube was glowing red but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion at this point. Further investigation is necessary.
i.e., - did it burn any brighter or remained unchanged? - was there a flame halo present outside the mantle with/without hood attached? - any other subtle/obvious changes on the mantle's visuals, etc. with and without the hood attached?
The reason adjusted to 14mm it was a guide I found but was referring to 350 and 500cp, when I got the lamp this gap was set to almost nothing and I am not sure if this was done for a purpose. So now adjusted to 12mm, with hood off there is no red tube and there is no hallow effect on the mantle. With hood on and after 3-4 minutes the jrt tube becomes red and there is a difference on the mantle too, the burn is less bright and you can see the the hallow effect starts, also I think the mantles are getting worn really fast. I've replace the original nozzle to the petromax 250cp bought from camp-base and same effect applies.
It would seem a little strange but in many such cases, replacing the J-tube would resolve the red-glow issue. The J-tube would appear to have no obvious physical defects other than just being old. Perhaps, it could be due to some unknown metallurgical changes in its structure over the decades which, in turn, had somehow altered its thermal properties. The reason why I had suggested you to light it without the hood is to allow better cooling around the J-tube in order to further evaluate the situation. It might not necessarily be true but I theorized that both the J-tube material's thermal conductivity and diffusivity had increased as compared to when it was new. Possible reason: the percentage of copper on it had increased due to loss of zinc over the years. The original new brass of the J-tube would have a significantly lower thermal conductivity and diffusity. The J-tube's surrounding temperature within the hood typically gets to the neighbourhood of 500°C during operation. With the present increased thermal conductivity and diffusivity of the J-tube's material, its thermal transfer properties would be proportionally augmented. The internal surface of the J-tube would presently be at a higher temperature as compared to when it was new. The mixed fuel-air flowing in the J-tube would be on the receiving end. The autoignition temperature of kerosene vapour in air is only approximately 220°C. If the fuel-air mixture's forward velocity is low in the J-tube, then its residence time would be longer. Chances are, it gets sufficiently heated up and attains autoignition before reaching the mantle. This causes some of the fuel to combust within the tube. This depletes the amount of oxygen required for the remaining unburnt fuel that reaches the mantle. Hence, some dimming effect, possibly sooting and the flame halo outside the mantle.
That's a very good theory @MYN . My observations definitely point in the same direction. I had an Optimus with the same “disease”: after a while, the mixing tube started to glow, and the light intensity decreased, accompanied by a noticeable flame aura around the mantle. My assumption was that some kind of catalytic reaction caused the fuel-air mixture to ignite inside the mixing tube, thus heating it up. So I coated the inside with high-temperature silver paint, but this did not make any difference. Ultimately, the only solution was to replace the mixing tube.
I had several J-tubes on the Petromax that was affected and one a Primus. I was intrigued. I had suspected some catalytic reactions playing a part but haven't found conclusive evidence to support that. Perhaps it could only be triggered once a certain temperature threshold is reached. Other than replacing the J-tube, I have also used another temporary solution. That was by insulating the J-tube by wrapping asbestos rope around it. This formed a thermal barrier between the J-tube and the hot combustion products under the hood. I had measured the temperature under the hood in the vicinity of the J-tube. It was usually in excess of 500°C but never above 600°C.(just below the temperature that would cause any solid objects to glow dull red hot). Another logic: any metal objects under the hood would have been glowing dull red if their temperatures are above 600°C. This reinforced my suspicion that the glowing red hot J-tube was primarily caused by internal burning, and not by any heat received from its surroundings under the hood. For the J-tube that I had insulated, the result was immediate. Although I couldn't see its surface under all the asbestos wrap, I was convinced by the resulting burn on the mantle: - no dimming, maximum brightness/whiteness and without the faint flame 'halo' outside the mantle. There are also other causes for the red glowing J-tube. Among them, is back-burning or the flame front on the burner cap 'flashing back' into the J-tube/mixer tube. This results if the velocity of the fuel-air mixture gets too low. It can also be 'triggered' if there is a large hole on a defective burner cap mesh or openings created by some broken-off bits of the ceramic flame outlets. Whichever the primary causes are, the ease of initiating internal burning is still greatly influenced by the J-tube's overall temperature and subsequently the temperature of the fuel-air mixtures.
