Tillite Patent

Hi does anyone have a copy of the patent for the "Tillite" preheater used on the X359?

On the flame tube is stamped:

BRIT PAT 24909 51

Cheers James.

 

2490951 is a 2012 patent by Dunlop Slanzenger. Can you check that number please. ::Neil::

 

I think the number is correct. Might not be a patent number I suppose. I was just having a play with it and I thought the patent might contain some useful info about how it is supposed to work.

 

There's a dot in there - 24909.51 - which would appear to be important...

 

This is not a patent number format I recognise. British patents from 1916 onwards are all 6 digit. Before that they are not and to find a patent you have to add the year and then 0s to make a 4 digit year and 5 digit patent number. This makes little sense in this case because this device has to be from the 1930s or later. In fact I suspect it is a 1950s invention and not patented by Tilley which will make a search for it near impossible. I may yet find it because I am working through the EU patent datbase. Be a while though as in the classification I am searching I am only up to 1930. ::Neil::

 

I have just done a quick look at class F23D11/44 from 1950 to 1965 which is where I would expect to find this device but nothing jumps out at me. Might be in there yet but only a detailed look at every patent will reveal it. Could be in a different class of course but this is where the Andersen pre heaters for Graetz are found so it should be in there. ::Neil::

 

I thought it might have been an application number and maybe Tilley didn't bother completing the application when they realised it was a POS.

 

Greetings, everyone. My first post here.

My name's Chris. I'm in Los Angeles, and I collect, mainly, Coleman appliances made through the late '50s.

I've been wanting a Tilley or three, and it has been my good fortune to recently acquire an X359 new in box. The unit (I presume; I haven't yet laid eyes on the actual lantern) has never been fueled or fired.

Would disassembly of this unused Tillite preheater be of any benefit to the original post?

Mind you, the box has never been opened, and at this time I am ambivalent about doing so. I do wish, too, to be of help. Please advise!

 

Well I'm glad you said it! It is - and nobody in their right mind would want to copy it...

Apples - thanks for the offer but I wouldn't dismantle the lantern if I were you. Sadly, we are all too aware of what's inside the Tillite from trying to repair the damned things on our own lanterns. Neil has also posted comprehensive images of the innards, somewhere on here.

Welcome to the forum, by the way...

 

Thank for the kind welcome!

I became aware of the Tillite's shortcomings while researching this lantern... and became familiar with most of your "faces" at that time several weeks ago. I did arrive at the conclusion that if I were to bring this lantern into service I would simply ignore the Tillite and preheat the lantern generator manually by some other means such as a torch or by the slip-on installation of a meths preheat cup...

Very good to associate with you fellows, whom, I presume, have become an authority on this (words fail me; I'm in need of breakfast) odd Tilley. I was attracted to the lantern originally for three reasons:

1. My first Tilley

2. Calibrated for use with paraffin/kerosene

3. It is unused.


I'm looking forward to putting up some pictures of my collection here in the next few days.

Thank you very much again for being here and for the kind welcome.

- Chris

 

Unused lanterns always present a dilemma, especially in an unopened box.

The X359 is a scarce lantern in any condition; yours could well be, literally, unique - it's a museum piece really. Personally, I wouldn't dream of lighting it although some would. I think I'd probably open the box with minimum intrusion, have a quick look at the lantern and then put it back.

If you really want to light a Tilley (not hugely exciting, believe me!), there are thousands of lesser lanterns out there, even in the US - I think one of those would be your best bet and leave the X359 unmolested for posterity...

 

Apologies to James for steering his thread off onto a tangent...

David, I am inclined to agree.

In spite of my lack of experience with Tilley, I have seen many via photograph... and although unfamiliar with this model (now I know why), I purchased it knowing, perhaps, that I might never light it. I may never open the box, either, but who knows. At this point I think of myself only as a steward, rather than a user of, this particular lantern.

I feel quite fortunate to have already acquired many of what I find most desirable of the Coleman line. In my case, these consist of lamps and lanterns and stoves dated from the 1920s through the 1950s. I frequently light many of them, therefore I am able to restrain myself from molesting this particular Tilley. *laugh*

 

I was trying to work out how the mixture of fuel and air was supposed to be regulated.

It seems that there is a metal tube with a jet on one end and a plastic pipe on the other end. The pipe carries fuel to the jet.

The metal tube slides into an enclosure, which allows pressurised air to enter from the top part of the tank. The enclosure has a hole at the top so that the fuel from the jet can escape.

If the tube is pressed fully into the enclosure, then no air can escape and only liquid fuel comes from the blowtorch.

If the tube is slid back slightly, then a gap opens up allowing air to escape and mix with the fuel producing a mist.

However I cannot seem to get the position of the tube correct. Either it is too far forward in which case I get liquid only, or it is too far back in which case all the air discharges in about 3 seconds, even from a fully pumped tank.

 

If you take the Tillite to bits and the innards are all in situ (mine weren't), the seal in there is probably bu&&ered and will need replacing. It's a piddling little thing with an awkward shape and you'll need to cut one out accurately from a sheet of rubber by hand. Best of luck.

There's a thread on here somewhere, where we discussed how these abominable contrivances were supposed to work. It might be worthwhile doing a search for it. I don't recall there being any possibility of "regulation" as such - it's either on or off, open or shut. If you want to light the lantern, it's easier just to use a normal Tilley preheater clip (and you won't run the risk of discolouring the globe or breaking it)...

 

Hi David,

The images below show what I mean. In the first picture the jet assembly is pressed up against the body of the housing so that only fuel comes out. In the second picture I have slid the jet back a bit and you can see there is a gap surrounding it where the pressurised air can escape. This allows a mist to form but the air is released too quickly.

 

Just noticed this thread. We discussed the Tillite inards and repair here - [url=http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/2374

I still haven't got back to that lamp but I think my pre-heater will require a small brass pin and the sealing washer to be recut before there is any chance of it working. I can see this one being a display only lamp for a while yet!

Regards Dave

 

I am also an unfortunate custodian of this species of blowtorch preheater Tilley. The preheater was operating on the non functional mode so I disassembled it completely to find that the die-cast zinc component was beyond repair. One of these days I will re-manufacture the diecast component in brass. I have also done a patent search through the EPO with no result.
I think the part was manufactured by PENN Engineering. (WWW.pemnet.com) They now specialise in captive nuts and the like, but who knows what they did last century I sent them an email a year or two ago but did not receive I reply.
They are a US company but have a UK subsidiary so someone in the UK may wish to follow this.

 

Mmmmm I can see why it never took off

 

Yes I've had mine completely apart as when I got it the plastic part was melted and it eventually broke in half.

 

Having looked at the link provided, the disc looked as though it had a depression/indentation formed by the jet. So one would think the disc is sort of 'pliable' (so it could make a seal) and not plastic strange arrangement aye
Good luck with your disc making chaps

 

Aye - unlikely to be available from the Fettlebox any time soon!

 

Well David, if your in a fettling mood, I can send you some of this stuff that may be suitable.....

It's a carbon fibre with a nitrile rubber binder about 1.5mm thick, stiff enough yet pliable enough to actually make a seal, its pretty good at being non stick too (IMHO)

http://www.jameswalker.biz/products/20

I have some kicking around so let me know if you want a little to have a play with and see if you can get this little beastie working (or anybody else for that matter)

Cheers

 

Sorry when I said "plastic part" I meant the actual body of the Tillite, not just the disc. I have a picture before it broke in half:

 

Oh dear, that ain't good , yet Henry's hex in Neil's posting looked to be brass (I think, or is it just photo trickery ?) if it is brass, I wonder whether the brass hex was a later mod after finding that the plastic melts
Replacement looks a trifle slim too, maybe getting a brass replacement made is the answer.
Good luck

 

I know, an old thread, but having recently been sent three non-working Tillites by @Tony Press, to add to this thread for reference purposes it’s to report that I’ve got two working reliably and with the third I sectioned the die-cast jet block because the hose barb it incorporated had disintegrated (fragments below the main body halves in the photo) and nothing was lost by cutting it open.




I suspect @James that the jet block had partially disintegrated in your example to allow that movement, creating the ‘fuel only’ or ‘mostly air’ symptoms but not the optimum atomised fuel output.

Here’s one of the working Tillites in action. I’ve found that no soot is deposited by the pre-heater if the tank is well-pressurised before pre-heat and kept pressurised during the minute-and-a-half or so it’s in action.



Regarding the pivoting seal/shutter control, creating a composite of the original bakelite-like component with a thin viton sealing surface epoxied to it offers a reliable and durable seal.




Better still is to dispense with the bakelite original and substitute brass …




… with viton epoxied to it as before.




The other failure element, the pivot pin, seen here underneath the component it’s merely (inadequately) press-fitted into, is best hard-soldered (silver-soldered; silbrazed) in place.





John

 

The brass backing appears like a good improvisation.
Has anyone found the Tillite patent yet? It has been more than a decade since this thread.

 

@MYN
No-one’s yet found the patent or has reported here or elsewhere on CPL if they have. Evidently Neil McRae was on the scent but it must have gone cold. My searches on Espacenet have proved fruitless.

Yes, the brass/viton composite seems promising. I’ve installed it in my remaining Tillite, which I’m thinking of fitting to a project Tilley CS56 kerosene stove.

 

@presscall
Looks promising as a possible solution to the Tillite problem which, has thus far, been sort of a pain to most who had experience with it.
The other solution is of course, the blanking plug .

So,...the patent remains elusive.

 

They didn't need to patent it, who would want to copy that solution.

 

@Nils Stephenson
Well, joking apart Nils, Tilley invariably manufactured lamps and components that worked well and reliably, so the shortfall with the Tillite design is of interest to explore.

Primarily, of what specification was the seal/shutter considered to be suitable by the designer and was the pivot pin identified in the patent as a component to be merely pressed (interference fit) into the backing plate?

Questions like these and the search for answers sustain our hobby, as a niche interest perhaps, you’ll agree.

???

John