Using Kerosene instead of Paraffin in pressure lamps.

Hi all,

I've been using Barrettine premium paraffin at £7.99 for 4 litres from my local hardware shop since i started collecting/fettling which is quite expensive but have just been made aware of a fairly local fuel supplier that sells Kerosene at 70p a litre and buying in bulk would be a big saving,
I know Paraffin has added ingredients to make it smell nicer for indoor use but in reality is there much of a noticeable difference as i don't want to go and buy 20 litres and it stinks!

Thanks.

What Is The Difference Between Kerosene And Paraffin?

 

I always use kerosene and my lamps, it works great. My father and grandfather also used kerosene in their lamps, heaters and fridges (we hail from the country).
I thought paraffin was / is what the British called kerosene.

 

Me too Pete but apparently according to that link there are added ingredients to make Paraffin smell better also Kerosene is meant to cause more soot, not sure if it is the same abroad?

 

Hi,

I believe it's the other way around... in that paraffin has the sulphur removed, or as much as is possible. It's the sulphur content that causes the smell apparently. Domestic heating kerosene works very well in lamps and camping stoves as it has slightly more oomph but boy does it smell.

However, there is a solution that I haven't tried yet but I will very soon. Calcium carbonate can be used to leach out the sulphur making it much less smelly. The figures. I've seen quoted are 1 cup of calcium carbonate to a gallon of heating kerosene. You then filter the kerosene and use it in the normal way. I looked it up and this technique is a standard industrial method of removing sulphur from fuels.

When I've experimented with a batch I'll post my findings.

 

Apparently it is both, Paraffin is more refined plus it includes additives to reduce the scent,

Very interesting Colin, i will look forward to the results.

 

As far as I'm aware, kerosene is the American name for paraffin...

Kerosene - Wikipedia

 

Just like gasoline is the American name for petrol.

 

Nationwide fuels in the link in my first post seem to think there is a difference in purity, scent and soot (maybe its just a sales pitch to get you to pay more?) and Colin said Kerosene stinks in use, i just don't want to buy in bulk to find out i can only use it outside.

 

My understanding is kerosene & paraffin are one & the same but with the smellies that offend some people removed it's called lamp oil

 

I did indeed say that kerosene stinks, but we need to be careful to define terms. The kerosene I'm taking about is for my central heating boiler and is sold specifically for this purpose. It has a relatively high sulphur content, hence the smell. I can also buy paraffin (also called kerosene in the US) in 4L plastic containers from my local petrol station (gas station) that has a much lower sulphur content because it is specifically intended for indoor lamps and heaters, but this costs substantially more.

I'm also investigating whether I can purchase aviation grade kerosene such as Jet A or Jest A1 which are also lower in sulphur. Some people have reported that they are able to buy jet kerosene 'tank dregs' which works well in lanterns and stoves, but that seems to depend on having someone on the 'inside'.

Anyway, as soon as my calcium carbonate arrives I will add the correct amount to a couple of gallons of my central heating kerosene and see what it's like when it's used as a fuel in my lamps.

 

@David Shouksmith

When I grew up (2nd half of the 20th century) “kerosene” or “kerosine” was the common Australian term for what the British call paraffin. This is still the case, although the spelling “kerosine” is in decline.

In Australia, “paraffin” was (is) usually used in conjunction with “wax” or “oil” (“paraffin wax” or “paraffin oil”). This substance is not what the British call “paraffin” - it is essentially a liquid candle wax.

Cheers

Tony

 

@ColinG

I believe the Kerosene i would be buying from the pump at the fuel suppliers is indeed used for household heating etc and as per Nationwide Fuels website,

Difference in Odour

If you have ever used kerosene for your home heating system, then you may have noticed that it can carry a particularly strong odour. While this isn’t really a problem when you are using it for your boiler, it would be an issue if you were using it indoors.

While kerosene does carry an odour, paraffin tends to include additives to reduce the scent. This makes it a little more suitable for use in your home. A similar procedure is carried out in order to make kerosene more suitable for use in home barbeques and the pharmaceutical industry.

 

Indeed, I have visited the National Fuels website and seen their explanation, which is OK up to a point but it's quite simplistic and there is quite a lot more chemistry to it when you delve deeper.

One of the least smelly fuels you can use in either a paraffin camping stove or lantern is what is called White Spirit in the UK where it is sold in hardware and DIY outlets, but again, different countries have different and confusing names so you have to be careful not to mistake it for a product like white gas which is completely different. I've used it and it burns well and is virtually odourless. However, it certainly isn't a cheap way of fuelling a lantern!

 

@ColinG

In Australia “White Spirits” is absolutely unsuitable as an alternative to kerosene.

Products | Diggers White Spirits | Recochem - Australia

Tony

 

@ColinG

Yes its just a generalization for you're average buyer i suppose, i've not delved any deeper that's why i was interested in you're experiment,

I've only used Paraffin on Kero lamps and Naptha based Panel wipe on gas lanterns (which is much cheaper than Coleman white gas!) i don't think white spirit is suitable to use for any of them is it?

 

The official name for it here in South Africa is Illumination Paraffin. There is still a slight difference in odour and performance between different refineries and brands but in general it is all suitable for use in pressure lamps, wick lamps and stoves. I buy in bulk from my local diesel depot and I really cannot complain about quality or odour. It is a rare event when I have to use the pricker on a lamp.

 

I'm not so sure about Jet Fuels, especially for in-door use. I had the possibily quite a few years ago, using it in a cooker. When used inside a tent, it gave serious red and itching "Primus-eyes". I later learned that the Danish Greenland Sled Patrol "Sirius" have had the same problem when they burned JP4 . Apparently it came from the additives, especially from the Antistatic Additive DINNSA Jet fuel - Wikipedia that doesn't burn away at the relatively low temperatures we are talking about in our "business".

 

So, the calcium carbonate came this morning so I added 2 cups to 2 gallons and shook it well. I will check it in a week's and see if I can detect and change in odour.

 

This thread interests me because I have tried a lot of techniques to make cheaper fuel for lanterns. The most interesting one is ( presuming that the kerosene has a dye in it like it does here) to remove the dye... this in conjunction with the calcium carbonate mentioned above I would imagine would make a very usable lantern fuel. kerosene is about 70c a liter overhear from the pump and if you get it in bulk about 50c. That compared to the 30 euro I paid for 20 liters of synthetic paraffin would make quite a difference.

 

Jet A and Jet A1 are perfectly fine fuels indoor and out for kerosene appliances.

As a matter of fact, almost all kerosene sold in Australia is Jet A1.

Jet A is not generally available in Australia.

Tony

 

MSDS for JetA-1:

http://www.msds.bp.com.au/msds.aspx?msdsno=SAV2101-AU

Cheers

Tony

 

Stay well clear of AV-TUR, the various grades and the contents that the military use, may not be so good for your health. Jet A or A1 with no additives is fine, additives may be bad for your health.

Paraffin is defined legally in the UK as Class I for lamps and such and Class II for heating, the only real differences in the different specifications is the Sulphur content and the CHAR Value. Lamp Oil is technically Class I, but I would use it if you paid me. 4L drums of Class I to me smell bad and seem to produce more carbon on burning than the Class II Heating Oil that hasn't been sitting around for long, which to me has the most tolerable of the odors.

"White Spirit" as in "Stoddard Spirit" will burn well, but it does also smell.

As for those who say that CF or Naphtha does not smell can give me the other on, it also has a very distinct odor when burnt in a pressure appliance.

Those storing large amounts of Kero will know it's hygroscopic and that fungi will gow on the borderline of the kero and water and the bacteria will grow in the water giving you that distinctive green gunge and vile smell. Biocides work, but are generally bad for you health if used in a GPA, however there are some enzyme based antimicrobials on the market now which seem to safe enough to use as an additive for burning in a GPA

HD

 

Without wishing to gainsay you in any way, Colin, I'm not sure how this process would work. Could you give me the link to the website you looked at or some sort of reference information if it was a paper resource you consulted.

'Paraffin' is a somewhat old-fashioned term for a group of hydrocarbons more commonly known as the alkanes. These form what is known as a homologous series characterised by having single bonds only and the generic formula C(n)H(2n+2) i.e. CH4 (methane), C2H6 (ethane), C3H8 (propane), C4H10 (butane), C5H12 (pentane) etc. These first few are all gases but as the carbon chain lengthens they become liquids (IIRC from about C7 onwards) and then waxy solids (again, IIRC, from about C16 or so). Because they have only fairly stable single bonds between the molecules they are relatively unreactive hence 'paraffin' from 'par' (little) and 'affinity' (liking) i.e. they have little liking for reaction with other molecules. Reactivity decreases as the carbon chain lengthens so the naphtha-type fuels e.g. Coleman, petrol/gasoline have a shorter carbon chain than the paraffin/kerosene-type fuels which have a longer one. I could go on but...

 

Hi David, I was hoping no-one would actually ask me about the chemistry as I'm only vaguely chemically savvy and borrowed the idea from a UK member called Davey on CCS LINK HERE

I did have a dig around the internet to find out if there was any precedent for using calcium carbonate (limestone flour as it's sometimes romantically referred to) and found a bunch of articles about desuphurisation of fuels and or flue gasses that contain sulphur dioxide, so having put 2 and 2 together and came up with 6, I thought it seemed worth pursuing. That's not a very scientific process I'm afraid, but I'm giving the idea a trial using a couple of gallons of central heating kerosene from my tank outside. I figure if it works... happy days! but if it doesn't I haven't lost much and I can always use the still smelly kerosene in some of my camping stoves when the Summer arrives.

Below are a few things I've found on the internet but whether they are actually relevant or not... I'm not really able to judge. Sulphur does seem to form compounds when mixed with limestone so there's a chance something might happen.

I will post the results of my de-smelling test in a weeks time!

BBC - GCSE Bitesize: Sulfur dioxide

US3784676A - Removing sulphur from hydrocarbons - Google Patents

http://www.graymont.com/sites/defau..._and_limestone_control_sulfur_dioxide_0_1.pdf

 

Using calcium carbonate on exhaust gases that contain sulphur dioxide will in aqueous environments give calcium sulphate (= plaster) and carbon dioxide. This works because carbonic acid is much weaker than sulphuric acid, and the calcium therefore tends to tie to the sulphates. Over here in Germany that's a common method how sulphur dioxide is removed from exhaust gases e.g. from brown coal fired power plants. That's basically described in the Graymont link above.
However, removing sulphuric impurities from the fuel might not be so clear because of the variety of chemical compound involved. It could perhaps work at some of the fuel compounds containing sulphur which are a bit acidous. The calcium carbonate then could interact with them in a way I described before. The paraffin contents of course stay unaffected, thus the method would likely be able to remove (at least some) sulphuric impurities from the fuel. But what the Google patent describes sounds much more complex and cannot be compared to just pouring some calcium carbonate into the fuel.

 

Fancy that, the BBC using the American spelling of sulfur - phuck me, what's this country coming to!

Anyway, those sites appear to be dealing with the removal of sulphur from sulphur dioxide which is present in waste/flue gases rather than the fuel itself prior to combustion. To do that some pretty high tech and high cost processes are required, involving high temperatures and pressures. I doubt it's going to be as simple as bunging a bit of chalk into the paraffin and leaving it for a while. Still, we'll see - science never fails to amaze me...

 

I noticed that distinction between sulphur dioxide in gasses and sulphur dissolved in fuel. Oh well, we'll see what happens in a week's time. I'm definitely not using central heating kerosene if it's still smelly - it stinks out the whole house!

Hmmmmm, I too have noticed the use of 'sulfur' becoming increasing particularly in the education system in the UK which personally I find objectionable. There is even a push to make the spelling sulfur the norm to avoid confusion. Confusion? How could anyone become confused about what sulphur is or means? No, this is so printed materials don't have to be altered thus avoiding additional printing costs. No offence to my many American friends, but American English and British (and also international) English are two separate things... close, sure, but not the same. I personally believe diversity is a good thing otherwise over time we will all become homogeneous clones who eat, drink live and do everything the same as everyone else - what a nightmare scenario! Vive la différence!

 

Apologies for the over-medicated post above.

It's a bit more difficult to remove sulphur from petroleum stock than it is from flue gas: Hydrodesulfurization - Wikipedia

If you seek clean(ish) smelling fuel, then Jet A is what you are looking for, not an easy task in the UK, but not impossible. Living near airfields most of my life assures me that it smells like paraffin going in one end and mildly smells like paraffin coming out the other. This applies to High bypass, low bypass, and pure jet engines.

Kerosene/Paraffin, it all smells to some degree, I do not think think there is a process to remove all of the sulphur.

If you like the 4L pre-pac type Class I paraffin then it can be had in 205 litre drums, bringing the cost down to about 1/3rd of the price of 4 litre drums.

HD

 

That's certainly worth knowing, HighlandDweller! So you're another Scottish Highland resident - I plan to go and visit Jean in the Summer if all goes well. Act
Acually, if you buy a 205L drum for yourself, I could definitely part fund the purchase and come your way to pick some up. Would that be interesting? Maybe Yourself, Jean and I could come to an arrangement?

 

Hi folks, if you'd like a cheap source of calcium carbonate, then collect all egg shells, empty snail shells, mussels and such you can find, rinse them in fresh water (no soap needed) then dry and grind. Not perfectly white, but that should not be a problem for this application...

Best regards,

Wim