Some doubts about this Primus.

I've bought a Primus lantern from a flea market recently. I did not scrutinize much before buying as I do not know very much about these and I've never seen a Primus for sale here(locally on Malaysia) before.
Stamped No.1050 on the fount and petrol-fueled on the cage/frame. Has some corrossion on the enamelled hood at spots where the porcelain enamel had chipped or flaked off. Glass globe is a Jena er Suprax by Schott & Gen, made in Germany. Rather loose fitting on the frame but has a larger diametre than that found on a Petromax 350cp lantern.
The generator looks somewhat misleading for a Primus 1050. I thought they're supposed to be double-mantled?
And a Preston loop here?
There's a hole at the upper section of the air-intake tube(on the elbow) near where it intersects with the tip of the generator. Is that supposed to be there?
Doesn't look quite right. I've attached some pictures here.
Any opinions on when could this be made? Are all the parts original? Or anything else that's missing here?

 

Looks like a mix of Primus lantern parts 1050/1020/1080!

/Conny

 

That is an interesting construction. As you guess, this has been modified at some point in it's life. The original 1050 burner has been removed and you can see where they have soldered over the original fuel feed hole in the middle. The burner looks to be from a 1080 with an air tube from a 1020 fitted. The hole at the elbow is not supposed to be there. It will be interesting to see how they have actually fitted the burner and control wheel and whether it has damaged the original valve block. The filler cap looks to be from a Px clone, it is not Primus. The pressure gauge is a nice addition as original Primus stamped gauges are not that common. The date code will be stamped into the bottom of the tank.

 

If the lamp was petrol, would it have had the Preston loop then?

I don't know anything about these lamps, perhaps this lamp was never petrol but the parts that say it was have been swapped over from another lamp?

 

The 1050 was petrol but the 1080 burner was paraffin. A very intriguing hybrid you have there, Myn!
With any luck someone will have the original 1050 or 1051 burner parts for you.
Maybe put a post in the Wanted section?

 

Thank you for all the replies. Yes, from all of your re-verifications here, I guess my doubts were not wrong. Whoever the previous owner(s) is, I'm pretty sure the guy must have had quite some Primus parts to swap around. I don't see even a single Primus around here(Malaysia), be it a lantern or a stove.
Are the 1050, 1020 and 1080 from different eras?
I wonder what's the hole in the air tube elbow for? It doesn't look like a burn-though from a flame but had been deliberately drilled for some purpose.
From all your replies and the construction of this modification, I'd guess the previous owner must have known some crafts and exactly what he or she was doing. It doesn't look like a very easy modification to execute.
I don't think anyone would require a Preston loop type generator if its gasoline or petrol-fueled. Could this be a Primus version of converting a petrol lantern to kerosene? I've heard that this conversion thing is quite popular among some of the Coleman users.
This is definitely a hybrid then. At least its still mostly Primus parts except for the filler cap.
I wonder if it ever worked at all.

 

The model of 1050 you have will be from somewhere between 1934 to 1937. The date will let us know for sure. The 1080 model was in production from 1938 to the late 1940s. The 1020 was in production from 1931 to 1956, but this air tube is from 1934 or after.

I have no logical reason for the hole unless someone tried to put a wire in there to make it an electric lamp at some stage. The extra hole would have given even more air to the mixture which would definitely rule out petrol as a fuel. If the jet was standard then you would want slightly less air in the mixture for petrol.

Definitely a home made job and it would be interesting to see pictures of the tank and fittings without the cage and collar.

 

the base plate/heat shield has benzolin petrol naptha and looks like gasoline, could the hole + missing bits be part of air inlet adjuster

 

I have absolutely no idea what the hole was intended for. Perhaps to get more air for paraffin combustion? But then, won't that draw in some combustion products from the operating mantle instead?

I'll post some pictures later in daylight when I've dis-assemble the collar and the cage for a better view. Its dark here now.
I have to light up another lantern for the night. You won't believe me if I say I don't have any electric lights at home...despite the fact that I'm an electrician(somewhat similar to the sort of what @Christer mentioned he was in post no.1 in the fettling forum).

 

A very interesting hybrid lantern and i wonder if it will work and that extra hole in the air tube may cause problems.

 

G'day MYN,
What an interesting combination of parts you have in this Frankie lantern.
I believe the reason for the hole in the airtube will be answered when you check the size of the jet (orifice) in the nipple.
If you can't decrease the jet size increase the air intake.

I hope you get it running soon.

 

Good day,
I'll leave the hole there and then see if I could make this lantern run with its existing modifications after cleaning up and unclogging all its functional parts.

If it does run, then I'll shut it down and test running it again with the hole plugged with some temporary material. That'll decide if I should braze up the hole permanently or not.
Otherwise, I hope its not missing any other crucial parts or has been damaged beyond repairs.

I've never seen a Primus here before in all my life, not mention their spare parts.
Fettling would be somewhat tricky here......

 

Hello again. Had been busy at my workplace for the past few days. Its a 24/7 operations industrial process Plant...(electrical, mechanical, servo-drives and hydraulics, computerized and PLC controls, etc, etc...).
Back home again and managed to drench the Primus with both Deep Creep and WD-40. Dis-assembled some parts. Here are some updates of the fount with the collar and frame removed:

How do you actually shut off the fuel into the generator?? Does not seem to be positive shut off valve its having here. Only a rack-pinion type of mechanism for moving the cleaning needle rod.

 

Since it has been converted to a kerosene lantern, there's no need for a positive shut off valve.
The burner parts are probably, as Nils said above, from a 1020 and a 1080. You only use the wheel to operate the pricker.
This is a very strange hybrid. I'm surprised that someone took the time to do this odd re-build from so many different lanterns.

 

Hi MYN,
by opening the depressurization valve

 

Yes there has been some serious surgery done on this lamp. The central boss where the original fuel feed was has been cut down and plugged, so I would not expect it to be viable to get it back to original condition. The tank fitting looks to be from a 1020 or a 1080. Probably the latter as the vapouriser is from a 1080. Is there a number stamped into the side of the jet? Most likely 6145 or 6147. As Christer says, the 1020 and 1080 did not have a positive shut off so this is a kerosene lantern.

One thing to note is that the NRV is a larger diameter in the 1050 and they are hard to find, so be careful with it.

The hole in the air tube is still a mystery.

 

Yes, Christer. That's what was thinking too. Maybe the original was damaged beyond repairs or simply because kerosene was way cheaper and available than petrol at that point of time?
Whichever, combining three different Primus parts would still be an unlikely and troublesome endeavor.
I've not touched the NRV yet.
I'll check the jet later, Nils.
From the looks, it appeared to me that this conversion had actually worked for some time before it was sold. There's no feasible way I'll be able to restore it back into a full 1050. I might as well try to make this Frankie workable in its current construction.
The pricker wheel is not seized and the pricker is still able to move freely up and down. The filler cap appears useable until I could find an original.
I hope there're no leakages.
I'm not so sure about the way the mixing J-tube was being attached onto the burner cap. Appeared rather wierd. It was merely loosely slotted into the cap, not screwed on.
Let's see how it goes later

 

I think getting it to work as it is would be the best solution. It is also part of it's history. It would be interesting to know when this conversion was done.

The J-tube on a 1020 is just a press fit, so that should also work here. Maybe the threaded joint could be tightened another turn so the section going into the top of the burner chamber goes in further.

Have you had a chance to look for the date code yet?

 

It's progressing!

 

I couldn't see any stampings on the jet. Maybe its a little dirty now. I'll clean it up later and then check.
Here's the code at the bottom of the fount:

 

Z=1935

 

That'll make it the oldest lantern I have. Unfortunately, its not complete for a 1050.
The lower part of the generator, including the pricker wheel, seems to have some real surgery done. I'll see how was that attached to the fount in the way it is now, after some cleaning. But there's definitely some soldering where its attached to the fount.

 

Alright, now I've hit a snag on this one. I don't have the proper tool to remove the NRV, which I wouldn't want to risk damaging. I've replaced the pump leather and gave it some strokes. The NRV's leaking.

After brushing away some dirt with a brush and mineral spirits, I've revealed the soldered-on generator. Its not perfectly straight upright but I guess this does not matter too much...yet.

I'll leave it aside for the moment till I get a proper tool to remove the NRV.
By the way, does anyone know the dimensions between the flats of the NRV's head protrusion?

 

@LanternTom ,
What's the size of the slot you made for this? Does that fit onto the 1050's nrv head?

 

MYN, the 1050 and 1051 use the same sized head as the regular Primus stuff, i.e. 5 mm.
It's just the other proportions of the NRV that is a tad bit larger than what you are used to.
But since your NRV head look a little warped already, I would suggest that you start with a slightly narrower slot and test it on your lantern.
Just widen it a bit until you have a snug fit, but it's of course also important that you get it all the way down over the sides of the NRV head.
Also use a steel bit that just barely fit inside the pump tube so it automatically will centre and steer the slot well over the NRV.

Is it just leaking a tiny, tiny bit? Have you tested to flush the NRV with some kerosene first?
Sometimes that's all it takes to get it working again, and it's best not to remove these valves until absolutely necessary.
Even if it is a gasoline lantern, I would use kerosene for this. Just fill half the tube with kerosene and press it through the valve with the aid of the pump.

 

Thanks @Christer,
Unfortunately, Primus is not what I'm used to. This is the only one I have and its not 100% complete for any model too. Well, I was hoping exactly what you've just suggested might just work, but it didn't seal with kerosene or any oils that I squirted in.
Nevertheless, I made an NRV removal tool for it from a cheap T-socket wrench, which I sawn off the end and filed a slot on it. A rough estimate, but hey!, it fitted well.
Took the NRV out and measured: exactly 3/16"(slightly less than 5mm). At last...

 

@MYN
sorry I haven't been home much. What I would do is make it about 4.5mm and try it if not then I would take a file and touch it up until it fits snug. They work great. I made one for my Aussie Aladdin 1A...

 

Thanks @LanternTom,
No problems, I've just managed one. Works well and had the NRV removed without damaging it.

 

For anyone contemplating making a Primus NRV tool I would recommend making it along these lines. It stays centered, cannot slip and round off the head and will safely remove even the most stubborn NRV in seconds. It is based on the original Primus workshop tool.

 

Thanks @phaedrus42,
That's a little more complicated but I guess I could build up the T-wrench of mine around them stem with some plastic material that would slide comfortably into the pump tube to aid centering. But I'll need to check whether the slot in mine is centered in the first place or not.