Fixing "Halo" around mantle for Petromax

Hi all,

Does anyone know why my Petromax does a halo or extra flames around the mantle the whole time it is running? Is there a way for me to adjust it so it runs properly?

Thank you!

 

Hi,

take a new jet and needle

 

Karlli is probably right here but it might be worth checking the air gap between top of jet and bottom of the J tube. If I remember right this is 11mm for 200cp and 13mm for 350 and 500cp. Also is there a small screw in the J tube just above the jet? That is an adjuster which can sometimes cause a poor burn if it is not set right. ::Neil::

 

Good advise by both Karli and Neil. That adjustment screw in the "J Tube" is a "turbulator". It is a 90 degree adjustment. The bar attached to it is "inline" with the screw slot vertical. Adjust it until you get max brightness. Most Petromax users use the "balloon" type mantle. I have gone to the "Coleman" style mantle exclusively made by Peerless. The weave is much tighter. The tighter weave may contain the flame better. They are thorium coated too. The Peerless 111 is for the 500 CP models and the Lancaster 24A works well on the 300 and 350 CP sizes.

Bob

 

Thank you all,

This is the first lantern I have that has that effect. It is quite large (the halo), I will try everything suggested, it isn't burning very bright because of the wasted fuel. the mantle is enveloped in the halo. Doesn't seem like the lantern had much use otherwise.

 

I am still having the halo effect, I have changed the jet with new one and needle, I have adjusted the height of the mixing tube and set the turbolator, correctly.

What else can it be that I am missing. It seems that half the kero is being wasted as flames outside the mantle instead of just the mantle being bright. I am at a loss. Oh I am using the Trojan 500CP mantles. they burn pretty well in my Coleman 237

Thank you!

 

HI John

Try the old heat & quench on the vap tube in case there is some problem pre heating the kero.

Best regards Stu .

 

Cleaning out the generator might help but I doubt it. One thing though be careful about heat and quench on those. The Preston ring is brazed in and if you get the generator too hot you can melt the welds. Dull red and no more in that area.

What kind of Petromax lamp are we talking about here. Mostly they are simple enough to make work right so maybe a few pictures of the beast will help. ::Neil::

 

Just out of curiosity what model Petromax are we talking about here? 829? What pressure are you operating at? You shouldn't have to go any higher than the red line on the manometer. Does the nozzle have any cracks? Is it tight?

Bob

 

Hi Neil

Just a careful light heat & quench was all i meant as you say its brazed so this is all thats needed , i have done this with success on my anchor lamps ( similar burner arrangement ) as i find these can clog up after a while.

I feel Johns new jet & needle maybe too big still as it sounds like it's overfueling quite badly , I'm no expert on these & have managed to get by with more luck than judgement , iv'e used Tilleys / Bialaddins for years since my days in the forces but these are still a bit of a dark art

I will defer to your greater knowledge & look forward to a successful conclusion of this mystery

Best regards Stu

 

Thank you both Neil & Stu,

I haven't taken pictures of it fired up but I am sure you both know the type of halo I am talking about it engulfs the whole of the mantle looking like it starts at the bottom and covers all the way to the top and just pulses never disappearing. View attachment 20993 View attachment 20994 View attachment 20995 View attachment 20996 View attachment 20997 View attachment 20998

 

Hi Bob, the lantern is an 829/500, my manometer isn't working but I am only pumping about 20-25 strokes. There are no cracks on the nozzle, in fact I can't even get the nozzle off, the ceramic appears to have become one with the metal...I have other Swedish Kero lanterns without the manometer so I know not to overpump. I have adjusted the air fuel gap with the tool and it has a new jet and needle adjusted to the right height. I feel it is just not containing the flames within the mantle. the mantle isn't burning but at about 50% brightness and there is a soot line that starts on the mantle if I leave it burning too long.

Thanks for the help.

 

It definately sounds like it's getting way too much fuel. You could try raising the mixing tube another couple of millimeters. Looking at the picture, the mantle does look a little small.

Btw, you will have a hard time overpressurising the lamp with the built in pump. It needs to be pumped until your thumb hurts.

 

I think Nils may be onto something. Just for S and G's raise the air gap to its maximum and see if the lantern gets brighter. Sooting means RICH. So does lack of brightness. Your shutter is inline so no adjustment has been made. I have had lanterns do this before. They were stinkers when burning. When I maxed out the air gap they cleaned up. Once you raise the gap, then you might get some "response" out of the shutter. As for pressure, you'll get "P'max Thumb" before you overpressure it.

Bob

 

The mantle which is shown in your photos is far to tubular, the Petromax style of burner system needs a bulbous shaped mantle.

This keeps the vapouriser at the proper temperature to vapourise the fuel, if the vapouriser is not kept hot enough, then you will have the problems which you have mentioned, Jeff.

 

Hi all,

I have taken all your suggestions, I moved the mixing tube up to the maximum the lip is now level with the edge of the hole, I switched the mantle out to a bulbous one unfortunately I only have 350/400 CP of those, It seems to be burning much brighter and the flames are more see through now but I still have the halo.

Oh I also fixed the pressure gauge.

What is the consensus on the halo now? I have included two pictures, would they perhaps go away with a 500CP mantle that was bulbous?

Thanks as always!

 

Though it is hard to see because of the BRIGHTNESS. This 829 is burning a Peerless 111 500 CP thorium coated "Coleman style" mantle. Its additional length might be what's needed. If you have some Coleman #11 mantles, tie one on and see if that cures the halo. From the looks of your images I can see it spilling out the bottom.

The next image shows the sizes of Peerless and Coleman mantles. Top row L-R: Coleman #99, Peerless 2C-HG, Coleman #21
Bottom row L-R: Coleman 1111 HiPower, Peerless 111

The bottom image shows the size comparison between the Coleman #99 and the Lancaster 24A. These are 350 CP mantles

Bob

 

Well, I went all out, I removed the air mix tube, cleaned it out removed the Burner (original that had been cemented in place and had to break it out. I replaced it with a Britelyt SS burner.

I put a 1111 mantle in, it is burning much brighter the halo is invisible to pictures but I can still see it it isnt nearly as bad. The mantle isn't the bright white that I am used to burning my Coleman 237 though, more of a bright yellow... Is this burning right now, should I be able to see a halo? To be fair, I can see through it now and it is almost invisible but it is still there.

Thanks all,

 

OK, now go back and adjust the shutter and see if you get a change in the brightness. It's just a 90 degree or less adjustment. Maybe now if you have the air gap to big the mixture has gone LEAN. That will reduce the brightness as well. I think that there may be some halo present that when it's running at peak efficiency. But if it's so bright that you can't look at it, how do you tell? Looking through a welding lens? If it's burning bright, and doesn't stink, you've got it made. I'm sort of "spoiled" using the Peerless thorium coated. They out shine just about any mantle made.

Bob

 

A 500cp lantern needs a big mantle. It looks like you've pretty well got that part under control. I've never used the 'Coleman style' mantles, so can't comment there. I would suggest to play with the air gap now. As mentioned, it's probably running too lean now.

 

If you have tried Bob's suggestion and the lantern still burns yellow, then it's the mantle that's the problem.

The Petromax 829 is designed to use a 500cp., bulbous mantle, the shape and size of those mantles means that they stay close to the vapouriser and keep it hot.

If you click on the link below you will see my Petromax 829 lit, Jeff.

http://0flo.com/index.php?posts/9380

 

Hi all,

OK, I lowered the mixing tube a bit, doesn't seem any brighter I figure I am getting 350CP off of it, it doesn't look anywhere near as bright as your examples. It is still halo ing but you can see through the halo now, I take it this is the regular operation of the lantern?

It must be the mantle, it has at least shrunk up quite a bit more than when it was running way too rich. I need to get ahold of some Peerless I guess as all I have are the Goldmann (Trojan)1111 mantles.

Thank you all,

 

Hello, my lantern has an Anchor 500cp., mantle on it and they work well, Jeff.

 

Hi All

I use the 1111 tie on mantle type & they work really, really well on my Hippolito / Anchor type lamps , in fact so bright you can hardly look at them , they can be had here for under a pound each

Best regards Stu..

I'll post some pics later

 

I have a Petromax 500 HK in use with an U-shape mantle and it works very well

 

This is my first Petromax, are the supposed to audibly chuff kind of like a locomotive? Mine pulses and makes some noise doing it, maybe that is part of the issue? I figured since it burned so rich it wasn't a restriction in the vaporizer or pickup.

 

They are a loud lantern, but it should not be pulsing.

Did you give the tank a good clean out?

Muck builds up in there and when fresh paraffin/kerosene is added, the muck loosens and it will affect the performance of your lantern.

Cleaning out the tank is a sound idea for any lamp or lantern, Jeff.

 

I have a similar case, or even worse, with a Radius 119 that I used a way too large mantle on. Still it works good. Absolutely not worse than it would with the standard mantle.
You can see it big mantle (the other way around is another thing), and the shape of it all when well formed is not normally all too vital when everything other is working as it should.
Unless you use a picky lantern, which PX's seldom are...

 

I did a series of mantle tests a couple years ago using the Peerless and Lancaster mantles. All the "test info" is here, in images.
Mantle Tests
I used Coleman and several European pressure lamps. Petromax, Optimus, and a Radius 119 flat top. I have bags of the "balloon" type mantles that just sit there in storage. Haven't used one in years.

I have a couple of Petromax with CLEAN founts that "chug" a little when first lit. But as they heat up the chugging increases in frequency to the point where it just goes away after a bit. A little "Lederhosen Effect".

Bob

 

Thanks Bob, It does seem to go away as it gets going I guess I should let it burn for more than 20 minutes.