Vapalux M320 first run, fail and fire :(

I bought my first lantern M320 brand new in a box.
Bought some denaturated alco and kerosene (paraffin in UK, right?)

Kerosene (Petrolej in Sk) is a one for kerosene lapmps lighting (translation)

Started as it was wrote, fill the cup and lit.. Plastic knob is turned anticlockwise. Wait. All was ok except a leak (see photo). This leak made my alco boil from time to time

after this i started to pump and then fire started

Wht si wrong, how to check i all is ok, how to repair that leak?

Thank you
Alex

 

Hi Alex welcome to CPL it looks like the classic not enough preheat and what you have is warm/hot kerosene emitting from the vapouriser and not vapourized kerosene.you should not open the control cock until the spirit cup flame has started to die down,while it is pre heating just give a bout 10 stokes on the pump making sure the control cock is in the closed postion as the spirit in the cup has all most burnt down open the valve then it should light with a dim glow once it does that then you can pump it up to pressure

 

Thank you

Control valve is that plastic knob? anticlockwise is closed and clockwise is opened? It is not mentioned in instructions To Light Lamp
So what are step by step instuctions for newbie like me, please?

and what about alcohol leak, is it ok?

 

Welcome Alex,

The control valve is just to raise and lower the cleaning needle if the jet becomes blocked. It is not designed to control the flow of fuel.

Lighting instructions are here.

Try filling the spirit cup to the very brim before lighting. This might be a problem if the cup has a leak. Wait until it has almost completely burned out before you start pumping.

Are you certain that the spirit cup is leaking? Sometimes when you fill it a small amount of alcohol can run beneath it and cause the effect you see.

 

Firstly, that plastic knob is NOT a control valve - it is a jet cleaner ONLY.

No - the exact opposite way around. Clockwise raises the pricker to clean the jet so it is, in effect, closed because it is blocked by the pricker. Anticlockwise lowers the pricker so the jet is unblocked, effectively open. But I repeat, the plastic knob isn't a control valve on Vapalux and Bialaddin lanterns.

Click here for lighting instructions...

What alcohol leak? - you haven't got one. What is leaking is kerosene from the top of the vapouriser because you didn't pre-heat enough (should be 2-3 minutes) and probably had too much pressure in the tank (3-5 pumpstrokes only at first - see the instructions). Also, it's perfectly normal for the alcohol to boil in the preheat cup.

Hope that helps...

 

Hi Alex

Welcome to the forum.

Mr Optimus is correct. You need to fully heat the vapouriser (sometimes called generator) and the burner inside the hood before the kero liquid can be vapourised into a burnable gas. I can see no leak in your photographs, just the result of igniting liquid kero - something we have all done at one time or another!

Follow this link, it may be of help to you if you require any spares or accessories:

http://www.base-camp.co.uk/Vapalux.html

You have a great lantern there. Enjoy!

Regards, Jeremy

 

Done
My alco burnt very quick because of that boiling, so this time all was cntroller and it burnt in 3minutes.

My light was pulsating but i think it is because of damaged mantle.

Will try again tonigh.

Thank you guys.

 

The pulsating may be due to insufficient pressure in the tank. Once the lantern is lit, give it a minute to reach somewhere near working temperature and then pump it up as much as you can - you can't over-pump these lanterns and your thumb will give up ages before the lantern does!

Also, you shouldn't run the lantern with a damaged mantle because you'll risk the glass breaking if it gets overheated by a spike of flame.

Hope that helps...

 

New mantle, pumped a lot.. still pulsating, even after 10min of light
What is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2r0ngUTD9Q

 

"Pumped a lot" doesn't necessarily mean sufficient pressure. If the pump leather is dry you won't be pumping much air into the tank. If it's OK, but the filler cap and pressure release washers are hard, then whatever air you pump into the tank will be escaping. Does it get very hard to pump the lantern up after about 60-70 strokes? - enough to make your thumb hurt? If not, you're not getting enough pressure into the tank.

Have you done a 'dunk' test? If not, empty the fuel from the lantern. Turn the pricker control fully clockwise and pump up the tank. Now dunk it into a bucket of water and look for a stream of air bubbles escaping from any of the joints. If you see any, there's a leak and that seal needs replacing.

 

I guess lather is dry or almost dry (heard the strange sound when pumped, like air escaped through)
How to 'fix' dry leather? Oil, kerosene...?

 

Just about any oil will do, but NOT boiled linseed oil.

I tend to use olive oil, although neatsfoot oil is supposed to be best. I've a huge can of that somewhere, but I never seem to get around to using it...

Put the pump leather in the oil to soak for an hour or two. Otherwise, wet it with the oil and work it in with your fingers until the leather is supple.

You may need to slightly open out the edges of the leather so that it's a tight fit against the walls of the pump-tube when you replace the plunger...

 

I know this may sound really stupid but is the pump leather the right way round?

I looked at a brand new M320 in my local army surplus store the other day and the pump leather had been fitted backwards but it still pumped some pressure into the tank!

 

Yes, I've seen that before and I assume whoever did it, did so because the leather was easier to get back that way...

 

ok...leather is done using olive oil. Its better now, no pulsating but still no constant light.
also... when pumping fast I feel/hear empty movement with somekind of clicking (and I think I'm not making preassure in the tank) and when pimping slowly I feel the pumping preassure only at the end of the move. Movement is stiff, also.

I have no 12 stove and its pumping valve feels really different. Movements ok and I feel the preassure withing whole valve moving.

 

please any tip?

 

Have you done a 'dunk' test, yet? - see above.

Possibly there could also be a problem with the non-return valve at the bottom of the pump-tube - have you examined that?

 

Funny things pumps. If the leather is too tight then it will be hard to pull back and you don't get a full charge of new air. That tends to happen when you don't have the right leather to hand and use a bigger one. Coleman leathers for instance are bigger than most and will give trouble if you use one in anything else. Tilley and Vapalux leathers are different. Tilley is 16mm and Vapalux 17mm. Not much maybe but neither works well in the wrong lamp. Oh yes Coleman are 20mm.

The check valve spring tension is critical. Too much and you won't be able to pump at all. Too little and it will leak. Easy to tweak the spring in a Tilley because it is easy to get to. Less simple in a Vapalux but has to be looked at. The last spring I played with was on one of the Lind-O-Lite lamps. The later ones have a pump very like the Tilley and I had to clip bits off the spring about four times before I got it to work easy without leaking. ::Neil::

 

my leather is original vapalux (m320 new in a box)
And you are right it is little hard to suck all the air on the way back, but! when i pull some air in to the lamp i hear something is jumping through when i press too quick and too fast and feels like that air is jumping back into piston. Maybe end spring or washer is bad/stuck?

Should i disassemble whole lamp?

 

I think you need to take the check valve out and see what the spring looks like. You might also take a look at how the leather is fixed in and also the leather needs to be flexible so has to be well soaked in oil. It needs to be a little lose on the shaft so when pulling back it passes air. Too many washers in there gripping the leather tight makes it hard to use. This is one of those times when telling does not do it. So much depends on how it feels and at this distance I don't really know what is wrong. ::Neil::

 

Hello,

I have Vapalux M320 about a year. I am from Czech Republic.

Vapalux was working fine in the beginning, but later, after some hours of use, it started to be darker and darker. Later, the flames started to escape from mantle. I tried to clean vaporizer, with not good result. I ordered new one. The same, after about 4-5 hours - the same storry. I found also the vaporizer "deformed by heat". I ordered new two vaporizers and new mantle support (at basecamp, the told me that maybe it is taking false air somewhere between vaporizer and mantle support and flame become too hot). Everything is fine on the lamp, no damage, all threads on mixing dome are tight. Simply with new vaporiser, it works very well and shiny for few hours. After that the vaporizer becomes damaged.

What I think is that in Czech Republic and Slovakia, you can't get right fuel for this lamp and our kerosene ("petrolej" in czech and slovak) is burning too hot in this lantern.

What do you think? I am really unhappy with this. Very nice lantern and can last only few hours on one vaporizer. A found also carbon particles inside vaporiser and on needle, tried to heat vaporizer to red hot and cool in water, tried every tip found on forums. Also it looks like the jet becomes bigger and "parts in vaporizer" stops "rattling".

Thanks for help,

Jiri

 

Welcome aboard, Jiri.

I have one Vapalux M320 myself, and it was absolutely unused when I got it.
Strangely enough I never got it to work properly, and it showed many of the symptoms you describe here, so I'm eagerly waiting to see what the experts will say.

This was not what I was expecting for a totally unused lantern, so I just lost interest in it and shoved it to the back among all the other problem lanterns, where it has been sitting unattended for some years now.

 

Hello Christer,

I simply can't find anything wrong on that lamp. It was never used before. Now, I bough unused Bundeswehr Petromax from 1960, so I hope it will work. But still I would like to make my Vapalux working.

Jiri

 

Hello Jiri, it sounds like an overheating problem to me.

I have never had any of the problems which you have described, with any Vapalux or Bialaddin product.

About 2 years ago, I did hear that some collectors in Germany were having the same trouble with Tilley vapourisers and that those problems were caused by poor quality paraffin/kerosene.

Perhaps some of the German collectors can give us an update.

Welcome aboard, Jeff.

 

Hello Jeff,

exactly, the lamp is overheating (after some use the vaporizer is deformed by heat) and I think it is due to problem with fuel. But I need lantern that can work on local kerosene and hope Petromax will.

Jiri

 

Hello Jiri, the lantern which is shown in the link below was made in your country, so it may be the one to obtain.

If you have or can find any information on the company which made that lantern, could you post it on this website, Jeff.

http://0flo.com/index.php?threads/3125

 

Hi Jiri and Jeff,

yes the problem was discussed in german forums and some solved it with self made brass vapourisers with Petromax jets on them. You can unscrew and clean the inner of the vapouriser.

Others like me followed an advice of an experienced forums member with chemical knowledge that adviced to use Isoparaffins, you can obtain the product as a solvent named Shellsol T.

After his opinion the reason for so called "pregnant" vapourisers is the cracking of the modern paraffin due to the high temperatures especially in british lamps where the vapouriser goes straight through the mantle. During this cracking process the paraffin is split in its elements and pure carbon is produced in the vapouriser until it bursts. In the worst case you can't remove it out of the spigot.

Strange is that it may take days or even only hours until the vapouriser fails, I suppose depending on the quality of the paraffin.

The disadvantage of Shellsol T is the price but until now I didn't have a "pregnant" vapouriser and of course I don't light my english ladies every day. I have also two with brass vapourisers to burn ordinary paraffin for testing pourposes.

Perhaps the czech paraffin has the same origin as the one here.

Link to the german discussion:

http://www.hytta-stuga.de/ph/read.php?1,31730,50420#msg-50420

 

Hello Stephan,

thank you for information. So it is definitively fuel problem. I thought that.

I have seen premium kerosene "diamant" which is declared as odorless "isoparafin" on Czech online shop (http://www.karavan.cz/_311_007-petrolej-diamant-20-litru--.htm), the price is about 60 Euro per 20l.

Do you think it will works in Vapalux? What other kerosene will work in it? I am going to England soon by car, so I can buy kerosene there. Will it works on "Petromax alkan" or Aladdin fuel or any other lamp oil?

Also, I able to lathe turn vaporizer for my self, do you have any drawings or contact to guy in Germany?

The last question is about Petromax. I belive it is not so fuel sensitive as Vapalux. Do you think it will works on "modern czech" kerosene?


JEFF:

I wrote an email in czech language to Drukov. I will call them after weekend.

Jiri

 

Hello Jiri,

first let me clarify that I am not an expert, I only shared the information I got in the german forum.

With paraffin (kerosene, petroleum etc.) it is always the problem that you will never know what is today in the bottle and what is in four weeks sold under the same name. Paraffin is a generic term for a wide range of products that may vary.

The only reliable quality is for me Shellsol T because it is an industrial solvent that has guaranteed chemical qualities that must be reproducable. So you can be sure that every time you buy this product you will get the same quality.

A friend of mine from the UK uses "Pre-Pac" Paraffin without problems, I have never seen it here in Germany, so not easily to obtain.

I have myself Geniol and Petromax lanterns that work with the usual paraffin without problems, for everyday use they should work without hassle.

The "Diamant" brand paraffin is surely worth a try, can you obtain a datasheet where you can get informations about the specifications?

 

i forgot:

Link with pictures to a site explaining how to make a brass vapouriser:

http://www.scherning.de/Lampen/Willi_Vergaser.htm

Note: The guy who made the website is not the same who made the vapouriser.