AGM model 278

Hi I am new here. I have an American Gas Machines model 278 which I received from a relative. It looks to be in decent shape circa 1930s. needs new mantles (2 burner model). So the correct fuel is kerosene? can you light the pressure lamp without the mantle? (just to see if it still works)
Thanks for any advice.

 

AGM Ready-Lite 278 is a gasoline lantern which was introduced in 1927 and replaced with 288 by 1930. It may run on kero but probably won't like it much. You can always test run a lamp without mantles but you will need to do so with a lower pressure and may have to apply continuous heat to the generator. ::Neil::

 

thanks for the quick reply and info. so what is the preferred fuel for this type of lamp? and where would I get some new mantles. Thanks

 

Gasoline or camp fuel is preferred. I would not run kerosene in it.

 

Oh yes, mantles you can buy at Walmart or any sport Shop. Coleman nr 21 mantles are what you can probably get the easiest.

 

thanks. will stop by Walmart. I know with some antique furniture they say don't strip or clean the old lacquer finish. Is it OK to clean this up? and if so what is a good cleaner/ polisher?

 

Welcome aboard!

The best fuel to use is Coleman fuel or an equivalent.

I would start the cleaning process with hot soapy water.

 

Thanks. a few rusty metal chips came out of the tank. should I be worried/concerned re: the integrity of the tank? the chips are about 1 cm or less

 

@greg mosolf

Welcome.

You have a good lantern there.

1. On cleaning. Before embarking on the total “restoration”, do as Jeff advised and give it the once over with soapy water or car cleaner. Put the dirty mica chimney through the dishwasher or hand clean it. Clean up the external rust with fine steel wool.

2. On the tank. Give it a soak in 10% citric acid or diluted vinegar for a few hours then throw some ball bearings or small steel nuts in the tank (fount) and give it a good shake to loosen any rust. Keep filling and rinsing the tank with your soaking agent until the rust disappears from the residue.

3. You can then dry the tank (thoroughly) and put some fuel in it to see if it leaks. If it does, then seek further advice.

There’s plenty of information here about getting similar lamps to work, so have a good look around.

Cheers

Tony

 

You have a nice lantern there. Do clean off the rust as advised.
Yes, you can run the lantern without mantles during tests but it needs to be ready for that first.

 

Thanks for all the help. The mica globe cleaned up nicely with some soap. I used some vinegar on the inside of the fount. with the nuts and bolts after. I can still see a bit of rust in there so will clean inside again later. The little leather cup from the pump is soaking in oil, but I can already tell it is making some pressure when I pump it. The only leak seems to be at the opening where the pump goes in. same opening where the gasoline goes in. It just leaks around the threads of the pump assembly. Coleman repair person on Youtube was using Naval Jelly to remove rust. Is that OK to try? Thanks

 

If you have a magnet and some of the 'rust' that you have removed from the tank, see if that rust attracts to the magnet.

Sometimes, what looks like rust can be the coating applied to the inner tank at the time of manufacture.

 

Thanks Matty I will try the magnet technique. I put some gas in the tank and pumped it then discovered a gasoline leak. see pictures. also a question about the generator. I can blow through it, but cannot see through it. is that typical? I was unable to remove the burner/ air tube assembly from the fount. Would appreciate an suggestions for the leaky fount. Thanks, Greg in Florida.

 

You need to remove all the rust and grime from the internals of the fount before you can deal with the leak.
Do try the citric acid or vinegar for this as suggested earlier.
AGM founts are notorious for stress cracks developing over time on the fount. I hope this one is not too severe.
Do strip the fount of other parts and immerse in citric acid to clean up as much as possible. If you can't remove the burner frame now, forget it for the moment. Do not force it.
Do not use acid on the hood.
Others will advise as you progress through the cleaning.

 

Thanks MYN. I'll do the citric acid or vinegar again on the inside of the fount to be sure I've got it cleaned out well. I was looking at another thread for the AGN 277 regarding cracks. It looks as if the other forum member used solder to repair the crack. I guess this project is going to take a while. I will not try to rush this. stopped by 2 stores looking for mantles without success. I guess the COVID 19 epidemic has reduced inventory. I'm not ready to try and light this thing yet anyway.

 

When you're done with cleaning and rust removal, you'd want to check the leaky point again.
I'd suggest you fix up the pump, filler cap seals and oil the leather cup so that its convenient for you to pressurize the fount during the leak tests.
Yes, @greg mosolf , solder is normally used to repair the founts. Some collectors will line the internal of the fount with Caswells epoxy fuel tank repair compounds as a double protection. Its not very cheap, I think.
Solder is usually good enough.

 

yes I need a new filler cap seal. my fount leaks at the filler cap. The Fettlebox does not seem to have what I need. the gasket seal is about 1 and a 1/4 inch outer diameter and 1 inch inner diameter. so thickness is 1/8 inch. Use a torch to burn the old seal/ gasket out of the cap? I'll look around on-line for nitrile seals/gaskets. BTW these founts are typically made of brass? or steel. Looks like mine was plated. a little of the electroplate was damaged in the cleaning process. the metal beneath looks a little pink when the vinegar solution hits it.

 

I just used an O ring on my 277 (the narrow hood version of your 278) and it does the job.

Yes but with a steel baseplate.

Neat vinegar is O.K. for getting rid of rust but it leaches the zinc out of brass leaving the copper alone hence the pink colour. If you're going to use vinegar on brass, it's best to dilute it 3 parts water 1 part vinegar and keep an eye on it.

In a word, yes. Generators usually have some sort of filter in them. Even without it, the hole in the gas tip is very small - 0.008 of an inch doesn't let much light through.

 

Henry thanks for the information. I really appreciate the help. I am considering using one of the epoxy fount sealers. I have at least 4 cracks on my fount. I'm thinking the sealer might be the best way to fix all of the cracks I know about (and future cracks). Unfortunately I cannot separate the fount from the burner assembly. what is the best way to loosed up the threads of the burner so I can remove it from the fount. I can't pour epoxy in there until all the parts are removed correct? there is some kind of straw down in there that has to remain patent/ unplugged correct?
The other option is just stop here. The lamp looks good. I don't have to make it actually function. given the number of cracks and safety considerations.

 

@greg mosolf

My example is in the hut at the far end of the garden. I'll get back to you tomorrow when there's some daylight.

 

@greg mosolf

Strip the lantern down to this


Clamp the valve in a vice, use pieces of wood to pack out the jaws and protect the screw threads from damage.



Unscrew the fount.

Not in this case. What you are reffering to is a fuel/air tube and is found on 'instant light' lamps and lanterns. Your lantern does not have this feature and the fuel feed to the valve is a simple tube which is soldered to the valve. If you can't remove the valve from the fount or are worried about damaging it, you can still use a sealer but before it sets, do make sure to blow air down through the valve to make sure there is free passage through the tube.

 

OK excellent information. thankyou. will try that. Did you solder the cracks in yours? or use the epoxy fount sealer? I was just worried soldering was going to deface/ change the appearance of the fount especially given this fount is not typically painted. it appears people use a Dremel tool to enlarge the crack(s) then apply solder leaving an unsightly mound of metal. I guess you sand down the solder after that. But I've already learned that the plating is pretty fragile and comes off easily.
BTW the fount from your lamp looks great! I've still got some cleaning to do. and I still have to find that O-ring. Thanks for all your help.

 

@greg mosolf

I was very lucky when I got my lamp, there were no stress cracks and the plating was and still is, in very good condition.

When I have repaired stress cracks on other lanterns, I've used a cutting wheel to enlarge the crack because I think a grinding wheel is too wide. The trick is to stop just short of going all the way through the metal so that when you start to solder, it doesn't run straight through the crack.
I've found that a mini-blowtorch / chef's blowtorch is very useful for this type of work but any torch with a fine flame will do.


. . . then apply solder leaving an unsightly mound of metal. Don't use so much solder then.
Joking apart, it's best to leave the solder just a little bit proud then level it off with a fine abrasive.

Have you tried somewhere like Ace Hardware ? Another possible scoure is your local auto repair shop, the pistons in disc brakes use O rings as a seal and they will definitely be fuel resistant.

 

OK. I was able to remove the valve. thanks for the help! On a different thread regarding a Petromax someone had an endoscope with pictures. I remembered I had a USB otoscope. so here are some lovely pictures taken with the otoscope. what brand of sealer do you recommend? I think I will use the sealer as well as attempt some solder repairs to the cracks (of which I have about 6 cracks). The last two images are the inside of the fount. Not so clean as from the Petromax in the other thread. this is how my fount looks after cleaning x 3 with vinegar and a handful of nuts and bolts

 

It looks like the stress cracks are obvious from the pictures.
Its going to be quite some job repairing those.
I would suggest soldering all of them from the outside. You might require a suitable flux to ensure that it'll completely wick into the cracks.
After you're done with the soldering, pressure test it again with the fuel to ensure the leaks are no longer there.
Once its ensured, I'd suggest an internal sealer as well because new cracks might develop later. The sealer might not completely solve that but at least there'll be a double protection in place. Remember that the fuel is going to be gasoline, light naphtha or Coleman Fuel, all of which are volatile and highly flammable.
Caswells have a range of sealers are reputable.
I'd suggest any similar 2-part epoxy type sealers for strength and fuel resistance.

 

Just ordered the Caswell's I don't have a Dremel tool. tried to get a little solder to go down in crack from the outside (using flux and a kitchen torch). that did not work. I've got a soldering iron which I will try next. I can borrow a Dremel tool or open up the crack a little by hand. Thanks for the help!

 

The crack is still not free from oxidation. Solder won't wick in or adhere to that. The usual rosin-based solder for electronics work might not work on that crack. You would need a more reactive, albeit acidic flux to clear the oxidation. For example zinc-ammonium chloride flux which is usually available as a solution. A powerful soldering gun (200W or higher) would easily get the solder into the tiniest cracks with the aid of zinc / ammonium chloride flux. You will first need to completely de-grease the cracked area before applying the flux solution with a small art-painting brush. This is followed by soldering.
The rest of the fount would hardly be heated by using this method. The flux will clean the oxidized metal even before you heat it.
Having said that, you need to completely clean off any acidic residue after you're done soldering. Failure to do so can result in severe corrosion of the metal parts later on.

 

OK leak fixed. but I have liquid fuel dripping off the mantle when I pump it up. too much pressure? but no leaks from the tank. liquid gas runs down the generator (from the top) onto the outside of the tank. my wife says don't use the pump at all... and she also said consult to owners manual. By the way I skipped the soldering. just the Caswells.

 

Did you make sure the valve was fully closed before you started pumping ?

If yes, it may be worth undoing the gland nut and screwing the valve stem right out. The valve stem is steel if I remember correctly, check that the pointy end isn't pitted with rust. If it is, it won't seal properly.

 

yes the valve was fully closed. i pumped it about ten times. I opened the valve a little in order to light the lamp when I noticed liquid gas running down out of the mantles. and also probably running down from the top of the generator. but I'm not sure about that since I can't really see the top of the generator very well.
I did take the valve stem out earlier and it looked OK. The valve seems to function properly. the gas only dripped when I opened the valve. Too much pressure? Maybe I didn't put it back together correctly. I think the top of the generator just slides into the opening at the top. the generator only threads in/ bolts in at the bottom. it doesn't leak at the bottom. (well it did until I tightened the nut a bit more.)