Hello, I have just acquired a lot of 4 Unic no 6 lamps (for what I know), 2 of them are unfired and complete with their original globes and 2 of them are barely used but unfortunately without globes. One of these lamps is way taller than the other three, so I assume this model was produced in different heights. I know there is a discussion about the period of these lamps based on tank size, shape and decoration. These lamps were brought back from Paris in the early ‘30 by the grand grand father of the person who sold me the lamps. This is a sure information. The original owner used to sell his products at street markets and these lamps were part of the lamps he used to have light during the evening. So my speculation is that these smaller and without decorations tanks were contemporary to the embossed decorated ones, maybe just a cheaper version for outside use, while the decorated ones were meant for internal use in the houses. My two cents. I just took a picture of them so I will post more later. Cheers, Nicola
Oh two of the pressure gauge are branded Providus, I don’t remember the other two, I am not home now so I will check later. I know Providus was a distributor of Unic lamps in Italy. Nicola
Nicola, I´ve got one Unic 6 with the green cowl/hood. Four is crazy!! I think the more decorated tanks and lamps are much earlier than the plain ones. From what I see you don´t have any of the more decorated tank lamps. Maybe as you say a difference between work light and domestic light lamps Look in the Unic lamp section for reference. /Conny
hi Nicolas yes these are n°6 models i never seen such a tall version I always thought that the aluminium shade and burner protections were for work lamps as are n°9, now we are sure I had a Providus manometer on a Unic lamp but I thought this was a wrong mounting. Have you the proof of this collaboration ? please tell me what postal address is on the Unic manometers 3 impasse du Moulin Joly is pre 1930/32 5 rue du Moulin joly is post this date
@Conny C Yes four is crazy, and unfired also crazier Well as @Michel says these are configured with aluminum as work lamps, so these tanks could be dedicated for a working purpose. I have two Unic 9 with the same tank and aluminum body. For sure these are pre 1940 because they came back to Italy in the ‘30s @Michel the fact that Providus imported Hasag, Standard and Unic products is documented in the Neil’s book, I also have an Hasag Liliput as well engraved Providus on tank. I will post detailed photos of globes and pressure gauges soon. I should also have original mantles into the box with the globes, so I will post photos of those too, maybe these elements could help to define a time frame. Cheers, Nicola
@nep036 You have some very interesting lamps it would be good to see them up and running. Thank you for sharing these lamps with us. Cheers, Norman
It has to be said, the French (these are French, right?) do things differently and with just a little bit more panache! Beautiful lanterns.
HI all unfortunately the manometers are not from Unic so we can't use them to have an idea of the production period The very first mention of the society is from 1925, but it could be 1922 (I am still searching for proofs) Research in "BnF Galllica" 11/08/2020 : 4 résults Annuaire du commerce Didot-Bottin - Éditeur : (Paris) - 1 1925 (T1). p.1787 Annuaire du commerce Didot-Bottin Extrait 1 : SOCIÉTÉ « UNIC » LUMIÈRE, ÉCLAIRAGE ET CHAUFFAGE, éclairage et chauffage(...) - Annuaire du commerce Didot-Bottin - 2 1926 (T1,N1,A129). p.1844 Annuaire du commerce Didot-Bottin Extrait 1 : SOCIÉTÉ < UNIC > LUMIÈRE, ÉCLAIRAGE ET CHAUFFAGE, éclairage et chauffage(...) - 3 1928 (T1,N1). p.1540 Annuaire du commerce Didot-Bottin Extrait 1 : UNIC > LUMIÈRE, ÉCLAIRAGE ET CHAUFFAGE, éclairage et chauffage(...) - 4 1932 Paris-adresses : annuaire général de l'industrie et du commerce - p.724 Paris-adresses : annuaire général de l'industrie et du commerce : corps constitués, administrations, professions libérales, propriétaires, rentiers, etc... de Paris et du département de la Seine Sté Unic.-Lumière MOULIN-JOLY (rue du) I know the text is in French ;-) I can't do better -----About the two different adresses: 3 impasse du Moulin Joly and 5 rue du Moulin Joly In fact, this is simple. Because of sanitary problems, the "impasse" (dead end) have been opened/drilled in 1930. So this dead end became a street. The new numbering was formalized in March 1933. So the Unic Society didn't change of place. But this is interesting in dating (even approximately) the lamps. Here is the official bulletin of the Paris town hall : BULLETIN MUNICIPAL OFFICIEL du vendredi 17 mars 1933 https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k62370881/f3.item.r="Hinsberger""Joly".texteImage et /f4 BULLETIN MUNICIPAL OFFICIEL du vendredi 17 mars 1933 Vu les résultats de l'enquête à laquelle il a été procédé à la mairie du 11e arrondissement; Sur la proposition du Directeur général des Travaux de Paris, Arrête ; - Article premier. - Le numérotage des propriétés en bordure de la rue du Moulin-Joly est fixé comme suit : - Propriétaires (numéros impairs) : M. Leroux, 11, place de la Nation. - Numéro à poser, 1. - M. Albassier, 10, avenue Gourgaud. — Numéro ancien, 1 - numéro à poser, 3. - M. Hinsberger, y demeurant. — Numéro ancien, 3; numéro à poser, 5. - Fait à Paris, le 8 mars 1933. Pour le Préfet et par délégation: , Le Directeur général des Travaux de Paris, GIRAUD. ----Unfortunately the Nicola's manometers are Providus or SAGIL and I know nothing about SAGIL. Is this a french society ? I will ask for in the french forum. ----On thing puzzles me : The 3 or 5 rue du Moulin Joly is situed in a small building in the Jewish neighborhood On the ground floor, we have a restaurant. On the first floor, the Unic Lumière Company and Mr Hinsberger (a metal cutting worker). Then on the second floor, Mr Hinsberger's apartment. The floor space of each floor is 60 m2 !! I don't see how Unic was able to produce enough to export to Italy ?
@nep036 On the SAGIL manometer, the word KILOGRAMME seems to be write in French ? I don't see very well
It would appear so to me as well, but in British English that spelling is also permitted, but I guess not relevant here. Chilogrammo is italian and it is intersting that parts of the manometer's faces have been deliberately scratched off. I wonder why ?
@Michel Yes on the SAGIL manometers I can read kilogrammes that should be french, on the Providus ones chilogrammi in Italian. Nicola
@nep036 you wrote : These lamps were brought back from Paris in the early ‘30 by the grand grand father of the person who sold me the lamps. This is a sure information. The original owner used to sell his products at street markets and these lamps were part of the lamps he used to have light during the evening. some questions : those lamps have been bought in Paris to a street markets seller. therefore this is not an exportation by the Unic Society....right ? we can wonder why those Unic 6 were not fitted with the Unic manometers AT this time, I don't find information about SAGIL But it is certainly french can you verify if the Providus manometer could have been changed in Italia or if they were already fitted when the grand father bought the lamps ?
@Michel Yes, that's the story they told me. Not sure where the lamps where originally purchased, they were used for sure in Paris in the street markets by this person that in the early-mid '30 moved back to Italy. He was a producer of ties (liens) and he was selling them in Paris. I can tell you that each manometer perfectly match the patina of the lamps, so I exclude they were replaced at any time. Additionally the 2 SAGIL lamps (one short and one tall) have a deeper patina and usage if compared to the 2 Providus that are basically unfired. So my guess is that the 2 SAGIL could have been purchased and used in Paris, while the 2 Providus purchased in Italy some time later maybe with the intention to use them in the next trip to Paris that probably never happened. On the first photo I published the two darker browner patinated lamps are the SAGIL. Why replacing a manometer to an unfired new lamp? So I totally exclude this. The fact that Providus was a distributor of Unic lamps is not proven by me, but I've got this information by Neil McRae on his book, so I believe Neil. The fact that the head office of Unic was into a 60mq apartment doesn't mean that the production was happening over there only, I can't believe that... too many Unic lamps around for a theorically so small production. I have 500 lamps in my apartment by the way, so Cheers, Nicola
@nep036 I also respect the Neil's work, but sometimes the history is more complicate I'm trying to understand the link between the two brands Ok I note, the manometers was on the lamps for a long time. The 3 impasse du Moulin Joly was not only, as far as I know, the head office of Unic, this was the work shop L'Intransigeant On this newpaper, in 1921, you can see an announcement : this small industrial room of 60 m2 was offered for rent: "Electric force, light, water, gas, housing above, same surface." The eleventh arrondissement of Paris was, at the time, a poor district, a jumble of small shops, various workshops, workers' restaurants. Almost all the production of lamps or elements of lamps and heaters was done in the east of Paris. Then assembled by major brands. The manometers, for instance, were manufactured by specialized workshops according to the request and design of each brand. We could also assume that the Providus manometers were produced in Paris. Who knows? It is difficult to find many Unic lamps, for a production's period from 1925 (perhaps 1922) to 1968, this is not a great production. The most we can find is the n°9 model which was mainly producted in the 50/60's I went to Paris to see the buildings that housed the main brands. It was really much smaller than I imagined. Only Liotard (Lilor) had very large industrial premises.
@Michel I get your point and everything is really interesting! Thanks for sharing your knowledge, obviously I know very little about French brands. For sure Providus was and still is a big company, for sure Providus imported Hasag lamps, specifically the Liliput in the mid ‘30, proof is the well known Liliput branded Hasag and Providus. Unfortunately the Unic lamps are not branded anywhere apart the manometers that could be replaced so they never are a definitive proof of anything. I will investigate more about Providus, the answer would be an Unic lamp on a Providus catalog. Nicola
Some of the Providus stoves remember me some French stoves, so from Turin to France the way is short, I imagine many collaborations... could be also possible that Providus imported a very little number of Unic lamps...
yes the stove on the right seems to be a Lilor I wonder more and more if the Providus manometers could not have been produced in Paris, which would explain that they are found on French lamps brought back to Italy. We find things that seem very strange in commercial and industrial exchanges (a start of globalization on a European scale at the time ) I will dig a little in that direction
@Michel additionally, apart the Hasag Liliput that has the Priovidus name beautifully engraved on the other side of the tank, the majority of Providus stoves and lamps are branded by Providus with a simple metal tag riveted to the object. This makes me think that all the products with riveted tags are imported products that later have been "branded" by Providus, many other Providus products are for sure made by Providus in Italy, these are well branded with engravings on the brass. Nicola
