Dating a Petromax 829 Super Rapid?

I recently acquired a Petromax 829 Super rapid in South America, the lantern was in sorry state, but salvageable, I have cleaned as best as I could and currently am waiting for spare parts in the mail, at the bottom I can read 4093, and no other revealing numbers, all of it seems to be original, including burner,there is "Petromax" and "Made in Germany" in all of the important parts, I would love to know when it was made, here are some pictures:

View attachment 4502 View attachment 4503 View attachment 4504 View attachment 4505

 

http://www.petromax.nl/PX_tabel.html
and
http://www.petromax.nl/PX_datum.html

Here we have the key for the four digit numbers in the tank bottom:
1523 will be for the 60ties: 15th week, 1962, the 3ht day of the week.
It looks as if the key only is valid for the years 1960 through 1969.

 

What would 4811 be for petromax 829

 

If the lantern was made in the 1960s the date code as stated from Wim will apply.
On the other side: If the dates you get do not make any sense, your lantern was not made in the 1960s.

An image would help.

Erik

 

There's one

 

That's all I can get at min

 

Hello!
Can't find the section with codes and related dates on the websites.
Where should i look.
i am trying to date some 829/500 and others.....
4514 / 3544 / 1454 / 521 / 0364.......
Thank you!

 

Hell and welcome @bmmb,

The four digit code only works for lanterns made in the 1960s. If you look again at @WimVe 's post above, you will see that the first two numbers indicate the week, the second number is the year (196 ?) and the last number is the day of the week.
So your lantern stamped 4514 was made in week 45 (early November), 1961, 4th day of the week.

 

Mr Henry, how are you?
Thank you for the explanation, now i understand the codes and dating.
If i may ask one more thing, when storing my petromaxs found an writting from previous owner sorting the rapid ones with 'pxr NN' 'pxr N' 'pxr B' and 'pxr G'
each category had some same models on it (829/500) only diferent codes, but could not gfigure what is the NN N G and B, can you figure out what sortitment is this?
Thank you!

 

Welcome aboard!

 

@bmmb , I am puzzled by your question. The main differences I know of are in the collar (between globe holder and fount) and the type of Rapid pre-heater. Did you find the codes on the lanterns?

 

yes i had.
I purchased a small collection, and owner had it on a paper separated by those indicators.
pxr nn..pxr n........pxr B and pxr G......
Maybe some abreviations for condition and if in german, because of the 'G' for gebrauch....but if this is ok for the G letter, for the others i can't figure.....
always loved the petromax subject...remeber the one my grandfather had at home, an hipolito and some years ago, started gathering diferent lamps.... and now with the last ones, the rapid, i got curious about the dates i already learned with Mr Henry, and now with the abreviations on the paper...
I asked about it, because i tought it might be petromax collectors language...

 

Thank you!

 

If all is original on the lantern then something is wrong.. that metal flipper didn't show up till around 1964, yet, the lantern is showing a date of 1961! Could it be 1971??

 

If it is Petromax collectors language, I don't know it. It is more like a code invented by the previous owner.

 

@george wrong lantern, the one you see was posted by @kraig89

 

Yes sir, brainfarts, get'em by the dozen - off the charts!! Sorry...
Thanks, Henry!

 

I recently acquired a Petromax Rapid that does not seem to have a model number anywhere that I can find. Also seems to be missing the date code on the bottom of the base. I believe was made prior to 1960, but other than that I do not know. Any information on the model and or date would be appreciated.

 

Provided the gas tip is a genuine Petromax, it will have the candle power stamped on it. 350 = model 828, 500 = model 829. That style of rapid preheater was used between 1954 and 1956.

 

If it's from the 1950s (or earlier), it should have some numbers scratched into the bottom of the tank. This is often overlooked because other scratches from usage might cover it up.

 

For different numbering schemes for Petromax lanterns manufactured in different places please look at this thread (Dating a Lantern - give it a place on a time line).
In particular those lanterns manufactured in the 1970s - 1980s at Casa Hipólito in Portugal have a numbering scheme that is not compatible with the "wwyd"* 4-digit code used at the Graetz Company in Altena/Germany, which was explained by the earlier posts.
However, it also turned out that this code was still used by Graetz as late as the early 1970s, leading to ambiguities that can only be resolved by the components mounted on these lanterns, such as the type of rapid preheater or the shape of the slots in the globe cage.

* (ww = week, y = year, last digit of 1960s, d = day of the week, beginning with 1 = Monday)

 

Henry,

Yes, you are correct. The gas tip has "500" and "Petromax Germany" stamped on it. So that would make this a model 829. Still not sure about the date, but if the preheater is original to the lantern then that would put it between 1954 to 1956. Thanks for the great information, I appreciate it!

 

Thanks Martin,

I will check out this thread and see If I can figure out the date on this lantern. I went over it with a magnifying glass but still no luck deciphering a date on it. I think it may be there but I just can't make it out.

 

I just read an old post from Reinhard that says the Petromax Rapid did not date the bottom of their founts in 1957. So maybe I have a 1957 829?

 

Hello @max messing
The images are a little blurry. I'd assume that all the parts are original to your lantern. From the overall general features, I'd say was made prior to 1961. The shape of the main outlet vent openings on the hood indicate a design change before mid-50s, from the earlier E & G Petromaxes. The exact size of the slots on the hood would also indicate that it was made(officially) in Altena, Germany by Graetz rather than from the earlier pre-war plants in Eastern Germany. The overall shape, details of the curves and steps of the hood would also be somewhat different. The rapid preheater was introduced just before the mid-50s and continued to be used on units until as late as the early 60s until the metal, simpler design came in.
Some of the lanterns made in the 1950s do not have any hand-scribbled numbers to indicate the date. Perhaps some are just too faint or polished-off by a previous owner or mistaken for general scratches.
The lantern frame/cage/collar had gone through several design transitions during the 50s. Yours indicate the latest design that is still in use on the 'modern' Petromax.
The pump cap knurlings also indicate it was made not later than 1961/62.
I'm not sure what's the attachment at the bottom of the generator tube where there should be a spirit cup attached. The ventilation holes on the center frame baseplate indicate an earlier design. The later ones have larger and closer-spacing holes.
From what we are seeing now, the probability leans towards a date somewhere in the late 1950s but I could still be wrong.
If you don't mind, more detailed and clear photoshots would certainly be helpful for others to narrow down the timeline.

 

Thanks MYN,

Very helpful information and much appreciated. I will take some more detailed photos and post them tomorrow. I was wondering why it does not have a spirit cup? It must have been mounted where the large hole is in the frame baseplate? Probably lost at some point. Does anyone know where can I find a used spirit cup to purchase for it?

 

You can buy a spirit cup at hytta.de.
But why?
Not all lantern had one. The basic idea was to use the rapid pre heater torch.
I also see the "prallteller" disc. That was also not a standard item and will conflict with the spirit cup I guess. My lanterns don't have the extra heat protection plate (prallteller).

 

These lanterns (827, 828 and 829) did not have a spirit cup installed as standard, as this was not considered necessary due to the existing Rapid torch preheater. It was obviously needed only in those lanterns without the Rapid torch preheater (821, 826 and 523).
The protective plate was an optional addition to prevent the central screw connection in the tank from unsoldering in the event of a defective mantle, directing the flame directly down towards the screw.
For the spirit cup there is no conflict with the protective plate (Prallteller), as the hole around the vaporizer is large enough. "Soft preheating" with alcohol can also be used if the fuel valve at the bottom of the vaporizer is not working properly. It also facilitates the burning of newly installed mantles that could be damaged by the Rapid torch preheater.

 

Thanks, Martin!

Some people seem to think you have to have both a rapid pre-heater and the familiar alcohol cup on the same lantern! What would be the point in having a 821 and an 827 if that were the case?


I know newer ones have both the pre-heater and rapid heater but E&G could make more profit if they offered two types, not just one lantern with two lighters.

 

@george The Rapid preheater was an invention to get rid of the second fuel (alcohol) and obvioulsy to speed up the preheating process. On the other hand it introduced a somewhat complex device which could fail (and this happens always when desparately needed). Further, it introduced the need for an additional fuel valve. The design for that valve they used is quite smart (from the idea), but not very reliable, especially when the seal hardens or gets seized by the fuel. The needle valves used by e.g. Coleman are much more reliable in my opinion. And starting those lanterns with the torch preheater can be a bit challenging and needs some experience/training.
Thus, both variants (with / without the Rapid torch preheater) probably have their justification and were manufactured in parallel for a long time.