Hi All Has there been any progress on alternative replacement ceramic insulation tubes. I know neil has spoke of getting a few made locally in the past, but i was just wondering if ceramic is the only suitable material for such a function. Are there not other commercially available 'stock' materials around today that can be machined into the correct shape/dimension with similar thermal qualities. Not in need of one myself (At the moment) but it definately seems that the stocks of these ceramic tubes are quickly diminishing, and no suitable replacement lined up ! Any thoughts on materials ? Regards
Hello, A solution that has worked for me is to wrap the brass tube with asbestos string and tie it up with a thread from the string. It is not as good as the ceramic but it lasted for me for the winter. If you still have the bits of the broken ceramic tube I have also repaired with it with fire clay. Fire clay molds very well with a bit of water added. These materials are used to fix solid fuel fires and a hardware shop should sort you out. Yours, Maurice.
Maurice Like it Think i'll have a dabble with that suggestion I wander how this 'fireclay' formed in a purpose made die/mould would turn out. Probably not as good as the real thing but maybe better than having nothing at all Regards
Hello All, When I was messing around there were none around so I had come up with another plan. If you have got the time to go down that route it would be worthwhile as these tubes are increasingly hard to find. There was some on ebay resonantly. An industrial firing oven would be needed. Also some advice on material to be used. I don't know wether fire clay would be good enough. Contraction during firing would be a factor. Maurice.
The materiel is what has given my neighbour problems. The two types of clay she normally uses cracked in use when I ran the heater for a couple of hours so she was going to get a small batch of stoneware clay to try. Not heard anything recently though. ::Neil::
Hi Food for thought there, Found some ceramic 'stock' material on the web yesterday thats machinable (Allbeit with tungsten carbide tooling), heat resistant to 1700 degree's C, etc and reasonably priced. Trying to blag a small sample from them to 'try before i buy' as its normally only available in 1 metre length's, If they reply that is ! If it gets anywhere, and its machinable as they imply, I'll post my findings Regards
Are there any plastics that could withstand the temperatures involved? I initially thought to something like this but the temperature tolerance isn't high enough. Maybe Kevlar or something similar? I guess if it was that easy, though, someone would have done it already...
Guess its like most things, wether its lantern tops, jets, or ceramic tubes. It just takes someone to apply themselves to these problems. Brave words aye, I'm stepping back a step or two now Regards
Well yes, Ray, but people have applied themselves to the commercial re-manufacture of certain items such as Tilley radiator mantles, donut heatshields, gallery pins and springs, Primus radiator guards etc. - all of which I've bought in the past. So why not Vapalux/Bialaddin ventilator tops, Tilley/Bialaddin bowlfire guards, Bialaddin bowlfire mantles as well as these insulation tubes we're currently on about..?
A very good question, and doing my best to try and answer, I guess it comes down to the level of developement/involvement versus the cost benefit to the engineer/retailer. Would the cost's involved in developement in tooling (Including ones time) out way the profits obtainable by a few multiples of 10 of this here, 20 of that there ! Knowing myself what time/materials/research are involved in manufacturing some of our components, that the cost benefit is only, somewhere near profitable to a small personal machine shop with no, or little overheads. If i were a well established engineering company, i wouldn't give these parts a second look, just not viable enough !! On the other hand, it will only be the likes of forums like ours that can highlight a need for components, as we are doing now ! As for the parts you have been able to buy so far, I suspect that these too will quickly diminish over time. Regards
Don't worry, Ray, it was more a rhetorical question than one requiring an actual answer. It'll be just as you say - R&D costs plus production costs versus likely profit. I was thinking more of production in the third world, as in the remanufactured Tilley mantles...
Aim your rhetori, rhetor, rhetory, rhet..... Aim your deep and meaningfull questions at people of your own intelligence, and leave the likes of dimwits like me out of it
Does anyone here class themselves as a 'heavy user' of their BBF ? I know a few of you warm your workshops up on a regular basis this way.I ask because i have recieved this morning a sample of an alternative BBF ceramic insulation tube.Unfortunately i do not own a BBF so it would be handy to find a volunteer to put this tester tube through its paces. Anyone interested ? Regards
Yep, but there may be heavier users than me nearer to you, Ray. However, I'll volunteer my 'beater' BBF for trials. I bought it very cheaply a few years ago for parts and promptly gave away the preheater to a newbie who never re-appeared once he'd got what he wanted - such is life... Anyway, it turned out to be an excellent burner, so I've still got it, it's still a beater and it still has no proper preheater of it's own (but the Tilley ones are a good substitute...)
Hi Guys How did the ceramic test tube do or has it not been fired up yet ,i have several Bialaddins / Tilleys that do not have a ceramic mantle inner & have made copper pipe ones to get them running with a thin steel cover This works well & is cheaper than the £10 ea they cost on the EvilBay ,but i would like some originals please let me know how the new ones fare Best regards Stu
Hi David My wife calls me Stuart whan she's mad with me Luckily i have the patience of a saint & i look forward to uour findings with baited breath , Edge of the seat stuff eh Good luck with the tests David 8) A Patient & contrite Stu
Sorry, Stu - meant to post this a week ago once I'd let Ray see it. Life continues to be busy... Here's my preliminary report:- "The replacement tube arrived last Wednesday (15th) and was waiting for me when I got back home after work. At first sight, it appeared to be made of some sort of ceramic material but at that stage I wasn't sure exactly what. My initial impressions were that it was slightly larger in all dimensions than the original tubes, much harder and much cooler to the touch suggesting that it might be a better conductor of heat, therefore potentially less suitable for our application. Measurement using digital calipers revealed that it was slightly over 1mm longer than the original tube:- This proved to have been due to an inaccurate measurement being sent to the supplier and can be rectified should an order be placed for further tubes. Other dimensions in millimetres (originals in brackets) were as follows:- Outside diameter - 20.6 (19.6) Internal diameter - 15.4 (15.1) Wall thickness - 2.8 (2.4) Before testing, I decided that there were two criteria I needed to assess. Firstly, would the tube survive the environment in which it was intended to be used and secondly, would it perform the function for which it was intended i.e. to protect the vapouriser from heat damage. Each criterion would be assessed after each period of use by physical inspection of the tube itself and examination of the vapouriser surface for heat damage - erosion, bulging, bending, twisting etc. Additionally, the performance of the bowlfire would be monitored visually at frequent intervals. So I fitted the tube and primed the bowlfire. My initial plan was to keep a close eye on things for a few minutes and then shut off the bowlfire and inspect for damage. However, after ten minutes it was clear that there were going to be no dramas so I continued the test for a further 50 minutes. In the morning (Thursday, 16th), I dismantled the burner and found everything to be perfectly normal. I ran the bowl fire for a further hour later that evening and again found everything to be normal on cooling. Friday evening (17th) saw a two hour test, extended to three hours because the bowlfire was performing normally. This morning (Sunday, 19th), I intended to perform a four hour test but the bowlfire ran out of kero after three hours. I refilled it and let it burn until it ran out of kero - 9 hours and 20 minutes. I've just inspected the tube (which was unmarked) and the vapouriser which, unfortunately was showing signs of flaking and erosion:- Inspection of the inside of the tube revealed some blackening probably due to carbon and it may be that some of the flames were getting inside the tube and this has caused the damage to the vapouriser:- But that’s speculation and there's no proof at all that this wouldn't have also happened with one of the original ceramic tubes installed. It wasn't a new vapouriser at the start of the testing and today has been an extended period of burning. I can confirm that the bowlfire was performing perfectly normally at the end of the extended test." Just to add, this isn't the end of the matter and I intend to carry on testing because I realised there were weaknesses in my experimental design. In particular, I've realised that I should have started with a new vapouriser rather than using one which was clearly working well:- ...but was of unknown age. Additionally, the lower mantle support plate on my bowlfire is rather distorted and that could have been the cause of flames entering the inside of the tube. As well as that, I didn't check which way up I had the tube, whether it stayed that way up throughout the tests and which end the discolouration appeared at. So I'll repeat the test with an improved experimental technique and see what gives. The problem is going to be that the damage appeared only after an extended run-time (over 9 hours) and I've only one free day a week. I may have to reduce the test periods to six hours so that I can get in two per day. Incidentally, I've found out that the tube is made from alumina, which, amongst other things, is used to line furnaces so it's unlikely to be ever affected by the inside of a bowlfire mantle... Edit - I forgot to mention that the ends of the tube weren't cut quite square and this may have had an effect. Having said that, they're out only a tiny amount (a degree or so, estimated) and that could be irrelevant. Given the alumina is so hard, the tube ends can't be squared up at home...
Jumping into the middle of this since I just cracked a ceramic tube on an R55 today If it's soley to prevent the flame from eroding the vapouriser, then why not just put in a fitted borosilicate (aka: Pyrex) glass tube? I'm asking because I just ran across a manufacture of custom borosilicate tubing, and it seemed like a potential solution. Of course, I'd be glad to order a solution from you folks if you find one! Al
Gents, Perhaps I can add something to the testing with original equipment as a "control". Since I just got my BF up and running again with a brand new vapouriser, and new Bialaddin ceramic, perhaps we can compare notes over time. First of all I noticed David's concern about the flaking on the vapouriser. Since I only had about 3/4 of a tankful used since the new parts were instaleed, I took the burner off and looked at the vapouriser. It had a LOT of black flaky stuff (technical term) on it. None of it was metallic; it must be some fuel or vapor that gets in there. I don't see anywhere near as much on my Tilley heaters and after long burning times. I cleaned it off and there appears to be no damage to the vapouriser. I must add however that after getting the BF running again (since it's previous disaster) it is a lot more smelly. Previously, it burned perfectly with zero smell. Perhaps there is some unseen damage inside the burner as it did get red hot when it was having the problem. I noticed that the burner cap can turn a bit now. The joint between the burner cap and burner ring (part with the row of holes) is (was) a pressure fit with a couple of stakes. In a Tilley, this part unscrews. Perhaps some unburned vapor is escaping around this joint. Can silver solder withstand the heat these burners generate? Dan
As a crude measure medium hard silver solder melts at about the temp that brass starts to glow red. So in the upper part of the burner it will be fine but not by the mantle where it will be running at about solder melt temp. You can try a harder and higher melt solder but then you are getting close to brass melt temp as well and there is a real risk of destroying the brass of the burner. ::Neil::
I was going to post about this separately, but I recently got a very well used Tilley WL series wall lamp which seriously STUNK! Nothing I could do would improve matters - thorough cleaning, new vapouriser, many seals later it still STUNK! Then I happened to pick up the burner in a certain way and noticed that it had two slight flattened areas either side of the mixing dome. Close examination showed a small gap on one side where the dome screws into the burner body - the penny had dropped - here was the source of the escaping kero vapour and thus the stink! I presume some Richard Cranium previous owner had tried to dismantle the burner by gripping the dome in a vice. Anyway, I substituted the burner with a similar replacement from an X246 Guardsman and all is now well - the lamp runs well, gives out a good light and is completely odour-free. Thank you, God... I wonder if exhaust putty could be used as a temporary / semi-permanent repair for loose and leaky burner parts...
Dan Exhaust putty sounds a good idea ! Definately sounds (Or rather smells) like escaping unburnt vapour ! David Who's Richard Cranium ? Is he a member here ? Just Kidding
Hi If you heat & quench the burner on your tilley lamp carefully several times ( this may take up to 10 + times to do ) you may be able to unscrew the dome by hand & tease it back into shape with a mandrel of the nearly exact size pushed inside ( the brass should reform easily as it will have been anealed & softened in the process ) then screw the dome back into place sealing up the gap where the previous owner had failed Best regards Stu .
Hi all, Base Camp have been making Tilley and Bialaddin tubes for some years now after original stocks ran out. Hundreds in use all over the World.!
