Wondering if anyone would care to offer some thoughts on what is not an easy topic. I classify the stuff in my collection so that one day my kids will be a bit wiser when they have to offload it. The classifications are my own but have similarities and classifications in common to some systems I have also seen elsewhere such as one on a blowlamp site that springs to mind. I'm keen to hear what people think are good examples for the categories. Keep in mind issues like FL6 Tilley floodlights are harder to get in Australia than in the UK. So the classification has to take that into account. Choices for Rarity Common · Easy to obtain, and price would be cheap to moderate. · Examples: Tilley X246, Optimus 111, Austramax 3/300, Primus No 1 stove, Primus 632 Blowtorch Less Common · Less common but still to be found regularly but could also cost a little more. May be more difficult to get locally but still available elsewhere, e.g, overseas, on a regular basis. · Examples: Coleman 242, Coleman 237, Coleman 500, Tilley FL6 Hard to Get · Costly to get if advertised and only seen occasionally. · Examples: Tilley X359, Companion 5C Heater/Stove model, Austramax Cougar Rare · Generally expensive if advertised and would be a discovery at a flea market about once every ten years. · Example: Coleman 238B, Very Rare · Less than around two dozen known. · Examples: AL10, EX93, EX4 ver 1, SL1, Austramax Table Lamp Ext Rare · Less than a handful known (and would include any models not yet found, if using for reference). · Examples: Tilley FL10, Challow, FL1,2,3. SL20, IL37, SL3, Kayen CL12, Kayen HR20, Sievert 42 blowlamp Keepsake · Used to let family and others know that there was a special significance. · Examples: It was given in trust or a family heirloom. Junk · The item is mainly suitable for spare parts. · Examples: Badly dented, dished out fount, blocked feed tube or excessive rust. Thanks in advance for any responses. I won't mention names but I have had input from one person already and that was helpful as often we look at things through just what we know. PS As I collect stoves and other things there are some examples in here that are not lanterns. Iain
@Sedgman I have a Veritas Superb rebadged by Coleman as a 239E also known by Coleman as the “Ranger”. I know of only 1 other so this, I suggest, would be in the rare to perhaps the extremely rare category. Cheers Pete
@Sedgman Some of the definitions above would indicate that rarity can be judged by price, such as for common ‘would be cheap’ while others ‘generally expensive’. So does the list inevitably become a pricing guide? And is such a guide a good idea?
Mmm.... I would stay away from price as a guide. I saw a lantern go on Aussie eBay recently for a price way beyond its value (I’m NOT talking about the VL which, in Australia, as Australian-found, is very rare). I have at least half a dozen of the said lantern, in similar condition, that I paid one order of magnitude less for. Tony
@kero-scene @Tony Press Thanks for the feedback; it is appreciated. No, its not becoming a pricing guide and I wouldn't want that and I will avoid it. However, I am pondering how to describe the rarity descriptively. I suspected more feedback comments on price and that is what I asked for and am happy to use this feedback to help me with my notes and trying to put some sort of workable document together. I could just use the blowlamps one but I don't like it fully either or I could just use Common, Harder to Get and Rare but whatever system one uses it is never going to be perfect. I guess I'm wondering what other people use to record which pieces should not go to the tip / rubbish dump. However, one should not dismiss that price isn't a 'factor' connected to scarcity. I do understand pricing is not consistent thank goodness as I can sometimes get a bargain. I note I have not mentioned prices on most of the categories but I have commented on prices in an ancillary way as follows: Common: cheap to moderate Less Common: could also cost a little more Hard to Get: --- Rare: Generally expensive Very Rare: --- Ext Rare: --- Thus, price is not my main concern but are not the price descriptors above a fair call? Anyway my main issue was to see what others thought especially about the number of categories or about the descriptors. As I said I do appreciate the comments and they are very helpful. Thanks
I think that prices go up and down (and faster than they used to due to online auctions) so would agree best steered clear of. Rarity is no guarantee of price. Collectability is however. Condition is a factor as ever. It might be helpful to propose a "condition" categorisation system to match. best Chris
Iain, to go with this you will could colour code too. Green for common, red for rare ..... Your kids are not going to know the difference between a Kayen CL12 and a Tilley AL21 for example. Perhaps a number on the coloured sticker to create a reference in a data base. It is something I have been meaning to do for a long time but haven't yet. My reasoning is so the rare stuff does not get lost via an auction and go to people who don`t collect and want to electrify every thing. I suspect this comes into your thoughts too.
Keeping the above in mind, I think you have every right to consider some sort of pricing guide for your children. In fact, I think it is the only possible solution. How rare a lamp may be doesn't always equate to what price the lamp *may* command on the open market after your demise. I used *may* as such because prices seem to vary a great deal and you won't be able to give your children a precise price guide. Since the guide is for your children's private use, I wouldn't be bothered with the rare and extremely rare type categories because that may confuse the issue for your children and give them a false impression. Rare and extremely rare lamps aren't always as valuable as lamps you may find other categories for. Using historical data, you will be able to give your children a bracket of X to Y, per type of lamp, with lessor examples being closer to X and better examples being closer to Y. That won't be a perfect system but it gives your children some sort of guideline to follow, rather none at all. I think the only two categories, apart from price guides is needed. Junk and Complete junk. Even junk has some sort of value to it so Complete Junk may be something you value at less than $50 or given away whilst Junk may be less than $100. Don't be worried about other collectors sensitivities. Considering this guide is for your children's private use, other collectors aren't going to be offended by your price guide as they won't be seeing it.
As in a few gravity lamps Matty. There are always some very rare items around but rarely get the bucks.
Some interesting thoughts there; collectability and condition. Thanks. Simple solution. I could colour entries in my database too. Thanks. Anthony, how true, alas, how true. Thanks @Matty for quite a lot for me to ponder. Appreciate your thoroughness. I reckon I now have a bit to think about so thanks to everyone for the responses. Iain
It is very good of you to consider your children and at least give them a sense of what your collection is "worth" when it comes time for dispersal to other collectors. I've been to too many auctions where somebody's cherished collection of whatevers has been sold by the box lot. It's often deserving of box lots, but sometimes it really needs to go to the right market for its true value to be realized. I would put our cherished lanterns, lamps, stoves, irons, and heaters in that category. I've got hang tags on my items both restored, and waiting in the queue, with code letters from A to F++. No dollars attached to the letter, but I've told my wife and kids that anything D and above has some real cash attached to it so don't put it on the yard sale table with the salt and peppers. Dispersal is a concern because selling the items for what they're worth on eBay etc. is a pretty onerous task to pass on the wife and kids. They have the names of some capable auction houses that will advertize to the right market as has happened in the last few years with some large US collections. But, I do plan on liquidating 90% of my collection in the next few years--like I know when my best-before-date is up! Hopefully the little hang tags on what remains will serve their purpose for them. Mike.
Anthony, Yes indeed, gravity lamps seem to sell very cheap, much to my disappointment. This fantastic lamp sold at auction last week on ebay for a mere $135. I just don't get how a fabulous and rare part of lighting history can sell so cheaply on the open market. I am very pleased that a member of this forum bought it. I have bought a couple of gravity lamps myself over the last week mainly because they were so cheap, they were affordable to me. The hanging Best No 90 is in outstanding condition including the Jappanning yet I could buy it for a lot less than $100. The Student Lamp I bought was also a lot less than $100. This one, because it is missing the tank, I kind of get the price. Fortunately, I have a replacement tank for it. It is along the lines of a Best No 84 but is embossed with "Canton" then "Canton INC Light Co" This lamp is as rare as they get and tanks aren't hard to find yet on the open market, it would be in @Sedgman Junk list as would the Best No 90. Why such beautiful and rare lamps only just escape the Complete Junk list - I have no idea. I have one or two lamps that some may consider nice lamps but the below Student Lamp, I can see it being my favourite.
@AussiePete Pete, in a way I am glad you feel the way you do, it shows that the lamps do have a special effect on at least some of us collectors. I used the lamps to highlight the fact that I think @Sedgman needs to have a pricing guide for his children. Rare and wonderful looking lamps may not bring a tenth of that beat up looking lamp sitting on a shelf in the shed.
I’d be interested to know how/if you factor in the geography element. I’ve gone global with my collecting to add diversity and what’s common in one country is nearly impossible to find in another. An $8 Coleman from the US in the UK can fetch £300. So I get avoiding pricing but interested if rarity is classified just on where a collection is based and would be sold. Interesting stuff!
To be clear, I’m fine with the idea of ensuring the kids don’t give everything away! Perhaps you could indicate the level of interest to other collectors - so NOS vapourisers might be high, etc.
@kero-scene @Scott D I'm still chuckling. I do think that is a very serious matter. (ie what the kids will get up to) Thanks for the response and the example of collectors having more interest in things like NOS vapourisers. I would add that is a great point and even unfired lanterns go a lot higher too. Scott D, Yes this is the sort of challenge and Tilley FL6 here in Australia is harder to get and more expensive than in say the UK. Haven't really got an answer to the geographic differences but I do have a far better and broader outlook on this topic. I have actually cut down my categories considerably as a result, and I do now have one marked Collectables. I'm not saying what I finished up with as that would be another can of worms. Thanks to everyone who has helped me out. I've enjoyed the feedback. Iain PS @Matty , they were some nice gravity lamps. I picked up a similar student lamp but it turned out to have a lot of failing brass so it's in the 'do later' bin.
I'm pleased you went that way. I'd like to hear and see more of that lamp when you are ready Iain. I may be able to help with parts if needed. Give me a hoy if you think I may have something you need. The failing brass interests me too. It isn't something I have encountered much except for generators. That includes a Coleman AA with a split virtually the length of the generator. I have had a couple of split tubes that has the packing in it though they are prior to the generator, on some very early gravity and hollow wire lamps. 2 or 3. I recently picked up Miller Student Wick Lamp on ebay Australia at a very reasonable price. I was actually very surprised to know just how old it was or could be after finding the patent and advertisements for it. It isn't often one finds those old Student Lamps in Australia for sale. One has to strike whilst the iron is hot. I saw the lamp virtually as it was listed for a BIN with Make An Offer. I made an offer and 10 minutes later the deal was done. Awesome.
