A recent exchange with a black domed Vapalux 320 as the subject prompted me to reflect on the often absurd pricing of this model lamp in places like Ebay. It is not the first time some members here commented on the newly seen heights n.i.b. lamps managed to attract when auctioned in recent years. But since then a fixed, 'buy it now' price for NOS 320's are a given on an erstwhile exclusive auction site that now has become a rather bland (and to me also boring) E-commerce site. But prices of £395.00 , no doubt dabbled in opportunism, must have some ground, somewhere. I know I am not alone in considering the 320 model as, well, rather unattractive. In fact, I remember regarding them once as plain ugly, and not to be bought for any price. That I now keep one (albeit an original red Bialaddin) in my smallish collection for a certain significance is beside that point. Because to me, the 320 model represents the ultimate pared-down lamp driven by economics, with Aladdin Industries the considerable force behind it. In fact I believe A.I. are also responsible for the emergence of new models in a rather rapid succesion during the 50's, where each model seemed even more simple and thus cheaper to make, down to a black plastic knob on the Bialaddin 320 pump rod as it emerged around 1966, Bialaddin's swan song. Why then the Rolls-like pricing for near-identical Vapalux 320's? Perhaps, like the cars, it has everything to do with status, and unlike Rolls, a temporary fad? With the emergence of Vapalux Korea we have seen a high quality product, with, at that time, high prices never seen before. That price level is now surpassed even by (british) traders, offering the original Halifax 320's n.i.b. for , some say, ridiculous money. I believe two factors are at play here, with one the result of the other. First, there is the internet, that is a tremendous factor to popularize a certain product or - in our case - a hobby worldwide. Thanks to the internet this site is what it is: a global exchange of information and discussion. A second factor consequently is, that a new public, and thus, a new market was found for odd pressure lamps, namely the Far East - and expanding. While I have never been there, I do believe that in most Asian cultures selling or especially gifting a used item is regarded as 'not done'. A fear for dis-functionality with a used item does not seem to be a dominant factor, but emotional value given only to new, or nearly new items so much more at play. And this notion seemed expressed in increasingly higher bids on Vapa 320 lamps on today's various auction sites. Hence the sometimes astounding prices for NOS or NIB items, with so far only a vague effect on prices for used 320's, and even less i.m.o. for older models. In general, our hobby that was rather innocent, if not dormant say only 15 years ago, has become the focal point of plain business with serious stakes. This causes laments on items that could be picked up for change, and now require a serious scoop out of someone's savings. Then again, it is now so much more easy to start and maintain a hobby, with many earstwhile unobtainable parts - and information - available. Unless you are after the prestigeous items, but then, you will likely not attent sites like this but rather follow the stock markets.... Me, I am not sorry, only amazed, at how the model 320 fares. I am perfectly happy with my selection of lamps that might look like mongrels in the eyes of many, but not to me. Also, I am now in the sheltered side of the market, as on balance far more is sold than acquired. And thanks to this site and those who maintain it, a pleasant way to share thoughts and other musings like on this Vapalux 320 that seems the eminent example of how things can change in the world of pressure lamps.
I don't think there's any such thing as an eBay "price" per se. What you see are amounts of money sellers are hoping to get and buyers are willing to pay. To call either of those a 'price' would seem to indicate that there's some sort of collusion between sellers of particular items and another round of collusion between buyers of those same items. Obviously that doesn't happen and eBay is just a kind of free-for-all where things change hands for whatever amount depending on a range of factors - how well something is described and/or photographed in the listing is one; whereabouts in the world it's situated is another. As it happens, I keep meaning to list an unlit Vapalux 320 with only a couple of minor blemishes in the hood enamel - possibly it fell over at some time or something small bumped into it - but otherwise as good as you're likely to get. Maybe today will be the day, we'll see...
A year or so ago I bought three boxed ex-military 320 lamps, one had been lit, the other two remain brand new. At that time I sought some advice on values, I felt some buyers remorse as the advice indicated I had paid too much! My thinking was, when will the opportunity arise again when I can buy what are effectively brand new lamps? Surely the demand is going to grow over a period of years? What I didn’t expect is how quickly! My intention was to keep the once lit lamp and use the two new ones to fund future purchases of older, more collectible lamps. It would seem that my decision has very much paid off! These NOS lamps have certainly outstripped the the increases seen on other used lamps. Personally, I like to be able to light my lamps, so having a new lamp in a box isn’t the be all and end all for me as a collector. Will I buy NOS lamps again if they’re offered to me? At the right price, yes!
There is nothing against making money or profit of a hobby and invest that money where it is wanted, or even needed. So you did good Stevie! Usually any collector becomes a trader to get rid of the doubles or other unwanted surplus. As far as Ebay is concerned, any price there advertised like 'buy it now' is a firm ebay price. It is what I have been referring to in relation to steep prices for Vapa 320 lamps. By and large Ebay is not a relaxed auction site anymore, much to my regret and frustration as a seller. Mike
Personally I agree with all of you, for all your various reasons. But let’s face it the days of buying a half decent lamp, even a Tilley 246B for 20 quid seem to be long gone
320s were never my favourite offering from Willis and Bates, that honour belongs to the 315, but the prices are just crazy now. I sometimes wonder if things will settle down after covid and the lockdowns end (if they ever do) but that's probably wishful thinking on my part. It's a shame because I'm simply not prepared to pay daft prices for lanterns - this was my cheap, fun hobby, not an expensive investment opportunity!
Well said! This hobby started for me when I was given a lamp, so my financial bar was set pretty low from day one...
I guess most hobbies start like that, often to lead to consiously higher purchases. In the end we all have to make up our minds about the financial consequences of any hobby. But I consider myself lucky that I can truly appreciate the simple and modest lamps like a X246 or a 300X, so even today my (stable) collection does not hold a vast sum of market value, let alone worry about.
When I list my remarkable Vapalux 320 later this afternoon, what do you think my 'buy-it-now' "firm ebay price" should be, Mike? I don't want to set it too steep, naturally...
David, I am not supposed to give a price estimate on this forum, the reason not clear to me as it is a basic part of this hobby. And unlike several other fora I might ad. However, once a lamp has been used or tarnished, it is not (like) new and thus very much open to interpretation and subject to considerations you have already mentioned. And as always, good, well lit pictures should make clear what you intend to offer the world; or will you limit yourself to just Albion?
Feast or Famine. Found a shop last week with 3 off Tilley X246 all need a full fettle. AU $100 each. Then the chap showed a MINT Tilley, 359, (I'm not sure of the number now) in original box, with spares and booklet, but with the quickstart device missing. ( A nozzle which points up at the vaporiser, at an angle). He's gonna ask AU $ 2 - 300 for that one. Then he shoves a MINT Austramax under my nose, in original box, with spares, and curved glass. I was salivitating. Checked my pockets, nothing. No room to carry them home on the motorcycle anyway, tsk, tsk.
Well, in your first post you said:- ...so now I'm wondering what that fixed, 'buy it now' price is for a NOS 320 - you didn't say. I'll knock off, say, 20% for the small blemishes on the hood, lack of box and accessories - how's that? You also mentioned "around £395" was too much and I agree. Maybe £95, I don't know...
Yes, Gary - that's exactly what I thought I'd do and let it find its own level in the market. Actually, with all the lamps and lanterns I currently have. I always found it was best to include a weekend somewhere in the auction period...
One thing about Ebay selling that is important to note. You will get far more if You offer postage. Never do collection only or You will get far far less. Of course this works the opposite when buying. I got a lovely mint 305 (with a shade), and a pristine ventilator for £30. I know from experience to always offer postage.....
One particular Boston trader (UK) that I have personally met and have purchased off and who has purchased from me .. pretty sure he isn't a member on here but is on several other related sites..The gentleman is question was a collector but would probably agree that he is a trader now and earns a living from selling lamps and stoves. I had a good conversation with him, particularly about the M320 and this anomaly is very much confined to the last production 'military' version, with the short straight glass, glass support ring and brass insignia washer (date stamp). These are almost exclusively being bought by the far Eastern market by collectors. They have to be the military versions and they have to be NOS. Used, civilian silver versions, mint M1's or any other model for that matter, just don't sell like this particular model. He wasn't entirely sure of the reason himself but one thing I can assure you of is, those prices aren't speculative, they are stone cold money in the bank and he has sold literally dozens and dozens at.... Well, it used to be £330 (12 months ago) but that's gone up and is closer to £400 now. Madness but just for this one lamp, very strange.
Mike, how can there be a "fixed" price if there's "quite a range"? What you're writing simply doesn't make sense...
I have 2x M320's in drab dark green. I rather like them. I prefer them to my Tilley X-246-B's as the Vapalux does not require a clip on pre-heater. I spent about an hour this evening replacing all of the washers in both M320's with Viton washers as they both leaked a bit when I used them for the Covid vigil on Monday (having not been used for quite a while). My M320's are relatively new (2002). I certainly didn't pay crazy money for them when I bought them 17 years ago. The M320's have decent construction with brass pump etc. I haven't posted on here in absolutely ages. I have a fairly small (20 or so) collection of Vapalux, Tilley, Petromax (including some ex-Bundeswehr in original metal carrying boxes) and Coleman. I like to use the lamps rather than have them as ornaments or hidden in cupboards.
