Brand new lamp, weird issue. Vapalux M320

Have used these lamps for years and when I saw a brand new ex MOD one come onto ebay, thought I would treat us. Arrived filled tank half full, set it to light.

First lighting, noticed the pump had a lot of resistance on it thought it was because it was new but when the lamp did not light thought there was another issue. Even after pumping the lamp with the air release valve closed there is not the tell tale hiss sound when you let the pressure go by open the valve. Tried using the jet cleaner but nothing would make the lamp work.

Left lamp to its own devices and then tried again just now, what ever was causing the pump resistance suddenly cleared and I could pressurise the fuel and managed to light the lamp. Upon pumping there was a deep gurgling sound which I think the previous lamps I used did. Light was pulsating.

When I tried again the same issue of resistance on the pump was back and the lamp is not lighting.

Is this a dodgy vaporiser, or what?

 

i acquired an ex MOD 320 ... same issue .. although mine was delivered dry and not fueled .I thought that the pump leather was smathered in very thick grease too much in fact ...maybe some grease was forced down the pump no doubt into the NRV ...I do not know what the grease was but thought it more like thick tar ...I cleaned everything , leather washer , valve . it has been dissolved ... lamp is 100% ... just saying ... maybe eh

 

@frlrubett

It sounds like no air is entering your tank, therefore no pressure, no light.

I would do as @Alby suggests and give the pump tube a good clean and make sure the leather pump cup is supple. Then half fill the pump tube with kerosene and force that through into the tank with the pump.

Also, check that your fuel cap seals are working properly.

Cheers

Tony

 

Welcome aboard!

 

Ahh thanks, I will give that cleaning a go. Just manually take to pieces and wipe off grease/grime or is there anything in particular to use?

The seller did mention the MOD lamps are heavily greased, do not want to go through the whole thing of returning a lamp which is perfectly serviceable!

Thanks all.

 

I’ve had the same problem, as Alby mentioned it turned out to be, what I assumed to be, some type of preservative grease that had hardened. Stripped and cleaned the pump/nrv and all was well.
Hope you get it solved!

 

@frlrubett

You should clean out the pump tube as well, either with a brush (even a toothbrush) or a rolled up cloth, and flush it clean with kerosene.

Then do as I suggested above.

Cheers

Tony

 

I'd recommend checking all the seals. NOS it may be but rubber seals deteriorate whether used or not (think of an elastic band left in a drawer for years). If yours is like mine there'll be a brass plate on the top of the tank with the MoD Broad Arrow and a date. Then you can tell how long it has been sitting. The NRV's tend to stick and you might have to get it out if it won't clear. The tiny pip in the NRV gets rock hard. If you get a seal kit get Viton seals as they last longer. I'm sure it will give you many, many years good service once it has been given a bit of tlc after its long sleep.

 

Had it to pieces, all seals look fine. NRV needle I think was the culprit seemed to be stuck upwards and slightly bent and rough to touch. Cleaned everything, rubbed down and removed any grime (very little present) and re assembled and it light first time. Light/heat are good but there is pulsating after about ten minutes of use. For now this is fine but is there anything else I can do to improve this? It is not as bad as this video, more gentle and I don't know if thats is just normal?



Can you still get parts? Sites I have looked on seemed to have sold out.

Thanks

 

As @Svenedin says - new seals beckon. For Tilleys and Vapalux's I always replace all the seals when I get them. They are not expensive and I get comfort knowing there are less things to go wrong. The newer viton based kits will last for years.

 

In my experience the pulsing can be caused by: low pressure, dirty fuel/tank, loose carbon inside vapouriser, obstruction in the burner assembly, parts of burner not done up properly.
it sounds like your vapouriser may be a bit blocked up tho.

 

Is there any way to unblock the vaporiser?

 

Just as a side note, when the lamp extinguishes when you open the valve, you can also hear the pulsation. Light goes out, come and on, goes on comes back on a few times, then the expel of pressure is in pulses.

 

The cleaning of Tilley and Vapalux vapoursisers is a well discussed topic here. I think it safe to say most people manage to extend the life of them somewhat via a variety of means. You have cleaned the wire pricker. The pricker has a very fine tip on it which will prodrude out of the small hole at the top of the vapourisier. The pricker is to remove small blockages from the small hole at the top of the vapouriser (jet). If you remove the vapouriser and press the pricker wire against the spring on a flat surface you should feel it poke out of the top. Do not try and clean the jet any other way as enlarging the hole will render it useless.
The "valve" is not actually a valve - it exists only to move the pricker wire up and down. Its real name is "jet cleaner" not valve. If you do not get the protrusion then the tip of the wire is missing or broken and is not unblocking the jet. The jet cleaner can seem to act as a valve as the pricker interrupts the fuel flow through the jet. To switch the lamp off - release the pressure using the pressure release knob on top of the filler cap. The vapouriser is a consumable part and was designed to be replaced once it was choked up or the jet worn (enlarged), however they are becoming harder to find. Some people heat them up and quench them, some swear by ultrasound cleaners - I personally have never sucessfully restored one back to A1 condition - only kept them going for a bit longer. If your MOD one was used it may have been used a lot.

 

And to add to what Fireexit1 says, if it is used MoD it may have been used with some unsuitable fuels. My ex-MoD lamps had something in them that smelled like diesel when I got them years ago. Squaddies are not careful with kit. I always though they used Vapalux rather than Tilley because the squaddies would lose clip on pre-heaters........

I have seen the very fine tip of the pricker wire welded in place in the jet where the lamp has been turned off using the pricker control rather than letting the pressure out.

 

Thanks for that, have just had a look and the needle is indeed poking through when I turn the jet cleaner. The vaporiser (and lamp) was purchased 'new' so I have ordered some replacement seals, going to do the whole lamp and see where that takes me.

 

You said “NRV needle”. Do you mean vapouriser pricker needle?

Clean the vapouriser by:

1. Take out the the pricker.
2. Heat the vapouriser with a butane or propane torch to dull red then drop in cold water.
3. Tap bottom of vapouriser on a wooden block to make the carbon fall out.
4. Repeat 2 and 3 until no more carbon appears.
5. Blast the inside of the vapouriser with carburettor cleaner; clean carbon off the pricker and prick the jet with the pricker.

Did you force kerosene through the pump tube into the tank? Have you checked for pressure leaks (eg by dunking lantern in water or during a spray again soapy water)?

Also, as a double check, put a thin wire down the fuel pick up tube into the tank to make sure it’s clear.

Cheers

Tony

Edit: Crossed with @Fireexit1 and @Svenedin

If you vapouriser is new it doesn’t need the carbon cleaned like I’ve said above.

If your whole lantern is “new” it sounds like a pressure leak and seals are to be checked including the NRV.

@frlrubett

 

Yes, sorry I meant the Vaporiser needle.

Will look at that Vaporiser cleaning, but it is supposed to be all new and un-used.

Did you force kerosene through the pump tube into the tank? - Yes

Have you checked for pressure leaks (eg by dunking lantern in water or during a spray again soapy water)?

No, dunk the tank and presurize and see if bubbles come? Will try this.

The NRV is the piece inside the pump tube, flat head screw driver?

I have ordered new seals anyway as they were cheap, the V33 pump valve external is that to go on the screw cap which the pump goes through? There is not one there currently.

Thanks

 

The “pump valve external” washer goes on the NRV to seal the join to the pump tube.

The NRV is as you say above with the flat head screw drive slot.

Tony

 

NRV is at the bottom of pump tube yes. Long handled flat bladed screw driver. Look inside the tube with a torch to locate the screw head. Undo the NRV all the way then tip the lamp upside down and it should fall out. May need to give the fount a bang with hand. Hold the NRV body in pliers and unscrew the screw. Inside is a brass piece and a spring. A tiny black “pip” is the seal. Dig the old seal out with a very small screwdriver and replace. Also replace seal around the NRV before replacing. There is no seal on the external pump. If your pump leather is in good condition there is no need to replace it but give it a good soak in light oil e.g 3 in 1.

 

Ah yes, will do this tomorrow with proper tools and light.

Pressurised the tank and dunked in water, there are no leaks. Submerged above the jet cleaner knob. Parafin does shoot out the top of vaporiser in a thin jet, which I guess is normal?

 

One other tip. Remove the small brass screw from the jet cleaner control knob and remove the black plastic knob. Then the whole jet cleaner assembly is free to rotate to remove it without fouling the aluminium uprights of the globe/hood supports. If you need tips about where any of the washers go, ask here. Don’t use badly fitting pliers and let them slip or you will marr the brass.

 

Yep already got that far, all of the lamp except the screws have been serviced without the need of tools so far.

 

Ok. You’ll also need to do the filler cap and air release screw. That needs removal of a cotter pin. If you’re careful if can be re-used.

 

Just thinking about all this; you said it arrived half full of fuel. I would dispose of that and put fresh paraffin in it - it may not be paraffin but lamp oil or 'low sulfur oil', this will light but can dim/fluctuate once warmed up. Also how many pumps are you giving it ?

 

Yes definitely chuck the old fuel and rinse out with fresh! I've found stuff that smells like diesel in old lamps. Bound to clog a vaporiser.......

 

I think people have misread...he fills half full with fuel! at least that's how I read it. Also, this just sounds like a sticking non return valve, nothing to do with the vapourizer (that's new) so won't be carboned up surely.. remove NRV, free off and go from there.

 

Ah I see, the "Oxford comma" was missing
I think we are all trying to second guess the problem, but it does sound like pressure/nrv is the favourite culprit.

 

Yes, sorry I filled half with paraffin.

So, removed the NRV today and stripped it down and found there was a crum of hard black stuff sitting in the mechanism. Removed and now the pumping is much easier, smoother. Just waiting till its dark outside to light and have a look at what the light is like.

Whats-App-Image-2021-03-28-at-16-24-03 was in the NRV.

 

Alas, this is the result.

video-1616957237

New lamp so should not have any blockages/issues, thing does look new and clean inside.
Dunked in water, no leaks.
Cleaned the whole lamp inc NRV + Vaporiser found a few bits, removed and cleaned.
New mantle.

What else can be done? Tempted to just send it back for another one.