Need some Geniol help...........

New member, but not totally inexperienced with pressure lamps.

Some years ago, I bought one of those Swiss Army surplus lantern kits in the large wooden box. It came complete with two Geniol lanterns, many spare parts and a manual in every language but English. I had bought into the argument that Petromax designed lanterns will burn anything from whale oil to peanut butter (if you can get it in the fount).

I tried one of the lamps with a 500 cp mantle and kerosene.....ugly, smoky mess. I switched to Coleman fuel and got a decent white light, but at a temperature hot enough to discolor the lantern top AND put some heat spots on the glass. At that point I repacked the lantern and stored the whole kit away.

Only recently, I finally found information that told me the lanterns were 250 cp (NOT 500cp!), and the Swiss specifically had them designed to run on gasoline. I've discovered more info than was available back when I purchased the lanterns, in that the founts are from the 500 cp lanterns, while the upper units are from the 250 cp units.

Now, finally to the questions:
I'd like to convert these lanterns BACK to their original design, that is, kerosene fuel. The two "generators" are quite different in that the kerosene units have a large loop, while the gasoline units are a straight design.

Can anyone point me to a supplier that would have all the correct parts for 250 cp kerosene? It would be helpful if the supplier had a phone number so I could actually talk to them/get advice, then order.

Thanks, and sorry for the long winded post!

 

Boy oh boy did I have the same experience as you, except those orginal 250cp generators are rarer than a unicorn here. Unless you buy a 250cp hipolito or something equivalent to salvage just the generator. Not even base camp has em... I tried the 150cp too, length too short so don't bother with that idea.

 

Welcome aboard!

 

Thanks for the info Reppie and the welcome Jeff. Well, it looks like I might be stuck with using nasty old gasoline after all, but I won't give up! I'll remove that 500 cp mantle and replace it with a 250 cp one, and see if that lowers the temp a bit. It runs fairly well on Coleman fuel and I might try some ordinary pump gas also. I would imagine the Swiss demanded the conversion so that gasoline fumes wouldn't be as pungent inside a tent, etc. Since gasoline is of varying quality in Europe, our normal pump gas, with no ethanol, should work fairly well.

Still, I REALLY want them to burn what they were designed for....heck of a lot safer in my mind.

 

Welcome.

The top of the lantern was destined to be blue; they all do that so it’s a badge of honor.

I’m a bit leary of running anything but kerosene, Jet A or the equivalent in any lamp of this design. I would have to see what other improvements were made to the lamp besides the vaporizer before I would consider running something as flammable as Coleman fuel in it.

As far as a kerosene vaporizer goes; can you post a picture of what you are working on? I would think it would only be the upper that needs changed.

 

Hi John, I don't have the ability to post pictures........I'm 72 years old and haven't kept up with the technology.........but the present "generator" (vaporizer) goes straight up from the valve and directly into the air tube at the top. There is no "loop" for additional heating as you would find in a kerosene lantern, so as a result kerosene is not fully vaporized with resulting smoke and fumes. I would imagine that I need the loop style generator, along with the correct size opening on the top and the corresponding needle or "pricker" to shut off the flow. Just finding and changing those parts would probably do the trick.

Everything else on the lanterns appears to be almost new with no damage or signs of use (besides me).

Oh, and thanks for the "badge of honor" comment............I thought I'd really done some damage! Glad to find out it's normal. If I can find the parts, I'll probably convert only one lantern then label both on the fount as to which fuel they use.

 

For kerosene only the upper part of the generator
has to be changed. But this is easy saying as they
are nearly impossible to come by. No after market
offers, may be private offers on auction sites.

Matthias

 

So, the orifice and matching needle are the same and I just need the "loop" portion? You're right about availability........just checked Ebay and nothing but 500 cp stuff out there.

 

Yes, it's just the loop you need. Everything else is idenrical.

Matthias

 

either find a Welder, to put the loop into Your original straight vapouriser.
Or you ask the welder to shorten the tube of a 500cp vaporiser.
If you are familiar with brass welding or hard solder, you might try yourself

 

You cannot simply solder a loop to the gasoline generator. The kerosene generator has a smaller cross-section (3.2mm) in the area of the helix so that the kerosene is guided through the helix and not past the needle bar.

 

Correct. You need to add that too.
Is certainly feasible .

 

Not sure if I completely understand..............would it be possible to shorten a 500 cp generator (with the loop) to fit, or are the two of different diameters? Would the orifice and needle still be the same? I ask because I have complete metal shop tools at my disposal and can do soft, silver solder or even welding if needed. The end result would be a good, solid unit.

 

I imagine you have theses....and you need what's in the 2nd photo

 

Pretty close! My kit has the lanterns on either edge with the center being divided for spares, fuel, etc. Didn't get a fuel can or candle lanterns, but found a standard one gallon can fits quite well in the space provided. I'll keep an eye out for those wrappings in the future!

Your set looks virtually un-issued, as in brand new!

I'll stop bothering everyone at this point and get back to you if (and when) I find the parts needed. Thanks again for your time folks!

 

I must have magic fingers, I only use 28 second kerosene (heating oil) and under *normal* conditions, never had any bother with my ex-Swiss army lanterns with the straight generator. My method is to tighten the fuel cap and close the air release screw, turn the control to raise the needle and pump until the needle of the pressure gauge was on 1. Fill the preheater cup with alcohol and allow it to burn until only the flame from the tube in the preheater cup is licking the bottom of the mantle turn the control to lower the needle and you're in business.

*normal* conditions = generally calm weather. Sudden strong blasts of cold air did cause the lantern to flare up, so not the best on a stormy night.

Adding (up to) 20% gasoline/Coleman fuel to the kero will raise the volatility but not dangerously so and the lantern will be less likely to flare up in adverse weather conditions.

Provided you have the skill, I don't see why not. A Britelite generator will make an ideal donor.

250 generator is 4 1/4" (108mm) on the left, 500 is 5" (27mm)

No but the threads are, simply use your existing gas tip (a.k.a. jet or nipple) and needle.

 

Just a thought; did you check the air gap between the jet and mixing tube ?

 

Wow Henry, thank you for such a detailed explanation! Something hidden in it though........you pump the lantern up to "1" on the gauge. I've been pumping it up until it reaches a red line at about "1 7/8"...almost 2...is it possible that I'm just over pressurizing the fount? Also, do you open the fuel valve completely, or just until you get a good "burn"? I open the valve to the 12 0'clock position and might be flooding the lantern and not even realizing it.

Your picture is a big help. I'll look into getting a Britelite generator also. Thank you!

Response to your second post.....yes, I set the gap using the 259 cp marking on the wrench.

 

Oops, it was getting late when I wrote that, I should have written "just under 1" and then when the lantern is burning O.K. , increase pressure to the red line.

Best practice is to always open the valve fully i.e. 12 o'clock. To do otherwise will leave the needle partially raised thus impeding fuel flow which although may on occasion be advantagious when lighting the lantern, it is considered bad practice. Gas or kero, the main cause of flare-ups / fire balls is insufficient preheating.

I should perhaps also have mentioned that the method I use works for me but is not definitive. Although the principle remains the same, when you factor in all the subtle variances employed by users, there are as many ways to light a lantern as there are ways to boil an egg.
100 Ways To Boil An Egg By Delia Smith - Video Results

 

Good morning Henry,

Thanks again for the advice. I'll try some different lighting/operating methods to see what works best with the lantern set up for gasoline. If it works better than my first attempt, I may just keep it "as is" and search for a lantern already set up for kerosene. That will give me an excuse to fall even further down the rabbit hole on pressure lamps.

As if I don't have enough hobbies already..................

 

It should be fine with kerosene, afterall a coleman straight (247,237,235/220 t44k,...yada yada) can handle it and that straight gen is simple to clean. Heat it up with some alcohol in that nickel preheat cup and that will work fine.
Probably more problems will arise after the fuel selection will be the finnicky things like pulsation, burner tube glowing red and nrv changing, one of mine is still stuck after taken the whole pump tube out. It even broke my easy out screw extractor before I took it out ... now I'm stuck with a stuck tube and a tubeless tank.

 

You BROKE an easy out? Man, that takes some doing since they're normally at the same hardness as a drill bit! I've had to deal with such things when working on antique carburetors and it can be pretty frustrating at times. I've soaked stuck check valves in Berryman's Chemtool (sold as a gasoline additive these days) and it usually dissolves the carbon/gum within 24 hours. It also has a mild penetrating effect, which helps.

I'd forgotten about Coleman's straight generator and kerosene, so thanks for the tip. I was about to put my Geniol away for now, but I'll give it one more try on kerosene using Henry's method and see what happens.........

 

It took a acetone/atf and pb blaster bath in the tube since the brass nrv head stripped before the easy out. Mostly it should be more of user fallacy on not having the right tools for the right job.(should've bought a dedicated nrv tool) Also don't let the lanternititus bite you! The petromax surplus kit was the first I got and now I got a near dozen others.

 

Sounds like you've got the tools and the talent but even then, Murphy sticks his head up!

As for being bitten by the lanternitus bug.........too late. I already have a half dozen Colemans that I rebuilt, along with these two Geniols because I just "had to have" a Petromax (or clone). Add those to my antique engines, model T Ford project and others, I have a full plate in my retirement. Unfortunately, my loving wife just doesn't understand, but she does tolerate........

 

That’s a slippery slope in itself; I’ve got more “real” clones than I know what to do with.

 

Indeed, don't be afraid to experiment, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

Although a generator with loop is ideal when using kero, I can assure you that it is not necessary, even with a straight generator your lamp will still give a good light. As well as the Coleman lanterns mentioned by Reppie, there are Hasag / Mewa kero lanterns from Germany which work perfectly with a straight generator.

 

Well, in the meantime, I ordered a kerosene generator to fit a Coleman 242 that I picked up at a garage sale for five dollars years ago. I've already been through the entire lantern, cleaning and replacing parts so it's ready to go and easily converted by changing the generator and making a preheater cup. I'll try that first and, if successful, start looking around for a "real" Petromax clone like a Butterfly or Anchor......something that won't damage my wallet and still feed my new passion.

I'm starting to like this hobby and it scares me a bit...........

 

Would a smaller jet assist in running kerosene? My swiss Petromax/Geniol set has jets marked 250, while my well-used Optimus 200p uses a jet marked 200. Both are 250cp lamps. However, I'm not proud to admit that I haven't actually fired the Petromax yet, so I can't say from first hand experience...!

Tim

 

Hi Tim...........well, I'm not sure. But at this point I'm going to stop torturing the poor Geniol and work on something already designed for kero.

Even though I don't have a lantern yet, I started looking around locally for K-1 kerosene......and found some at our local Ace Hardware store. $55 for 5 gallons! Yikes! However, I know our local oil distributor carries Jet A fuel for a heck of a lot less so that may end up being my test fuel. I need to research "Amish blend" also and find out what ratio they used.

 

You can not go wrong with Jet A; it’s all I run in my kerosene pressure lamps; it lasts for years and even at with snow stacked up on the container it flows as easily as water.