One of my buddies Richard Leyva sent me this awhile back-- I don't know if hes still makes them but they are great~~~~ a handy dandy gadget to get a good grip in 3 piece filler caps for disassembly! I love it!!!
Yes, a great little gadget, thanks. I made one a while back, works terrific, but unfortunately the screw sheared off level with the top of the filler cap insert. Next time I'll use some heat on it before placing it in the clamp. Was a cheese head screw too, sob, not the garden variety round head. #4-36 UNEF. All good, OCP has plenty of spares.
Apology - my mistake above. Filler cap insert screw is 5/32" Whitworth (or UNC), as near as I can make out. #4-36 UNEF is the size of some of the pump cap screws.
Whacko ! It was a bit fiddly, but we got there. The remains of the broken screw can be seen on the end of the easy-out, extractor. Again, it wouldn't budge in the clamp until heated and quenched to free it up. One Filler Cap Insert recovered.
I find that if you simply screw the filler cap onto the tank as normal, you can remove the central screw with a screwdriver, needing no other tools whatsover. Why complicate the issue..?
I too have never had a 3-piece that I couldn't get apart by simply tightening it on the font. I have had to tighten a few with a pair of channellocks and piece of leather but it still worked. @Paul Aslanides The filler cap for the large 3-piece is 10-32, the small 3-piece for things like a 242 lantern or 500 stove is 8-32.
I just made myself a 3 piece filler cap clamping jig based on the idea in the video and I didn't do it just to complicate matters! I did it because some idiot in the past had screwed the wretched screw in way too bl00dy tight and then left the damned thing outside for a year! I wouldn't have bothered fabricating a jig otherwise but as the gasket was old, shiny and smooth, it slipped round no matter how tight I screwed down the cap. Anyhow, it's fixed now. Here's my version if anyone's interested. While I wouldn't have made it just for fun, it was satisfying to do!
@ColinG Good one. I have one cap in same situation that slips when tightened so I will churn out one of these gizmos. Good to hear that it did the job.
Same here, I've had three piece caps where their respective screws into the caps' inserts were very tight indeed, tighter than a tax collector's fist. I made a similar jig to Colins, inspired by Camp pounded Dog's post. I believe, in each case, this jig was the only thing that saved the day. Cheers Pete
Hi Reese, these darn thread changes between countries after WWII are/were a real pain. I have a bottle full of cheesehead brass machine screws 5/32" that I was planning on selling off a few at a time because they fit the small Coleman caps. I was in agreeance with Paul (@Paul Aslanides ) re the size of the small cap at 5/32" BSW. However, as I have learnt, often things are not what they seem. So my first thought is are the Australian made Coleman 242B which use the cheeshead machine screws different sized to the Canadian or USA ones. ie could they be Whitworth here and UNC/UNF there. (I know so 55 deg whit or 60 degrees UNC) Second thought is I am off to measure these tomorrow when it warms up. I understand the diameter of an 8/32 is exactly 0.1640" and I am presuming the diameter of a whit 5/32 is 0.1563" according to what I find online. So I reckon I will measure them ( a couple Aussie ones and a couple Canadian ones) tomorrow and hopefully the diameter will confirm if there is some sort of difference. I had better not count on selling my cheesehead bolts off just yet. Will be interesting exercise. All I know for sure is my 5/32" brass bolts fit very well. Hope you agree with my measurement approach to understand this a bit better. Paul have you any to measure too? Iain
I'm sure you didn't Colin. The point of my post was simply to encourage folk to try the simple way first. Probably on 99.9% of Coleman lanterns the simple way works quickly and easily and only on the most abused ones do you need to resort to more rigorous means. I wouldn't like to leave newbies with the impression that a special tool is needed every time...
@Sedgman I have zero experience with any Coleman product made in Australia. Would love to gain some if any kind soul wants to ship me an Australian made lantern. . Nothing made in the US by a commercial manufacturer would be BSW anything as far as I know, certainly not any Coleman products I've encountered. Although Coleman did have an annoying practice of using non-standard, proprietary threads for many applications. The bung hole in 220 series lanterns coming to mind. Can't remember off hand but it's either 1/2-27 or 1/2-32 tapered. doesn't match anything else in the world. To remove an old hard gasket from a 3-piece insert I screw in the appropriate pitch screw using a 1.5 to 2" length screw. I clamp the screw in my bench vise with the insert sitting tight to the top of the jaws. I use a jeweler's screwdriver of suitable width as a chisel and out comes the gasket, usually in small pieces. Even the hardest takes less than five minutes.
@ColinG Looks good. Works a treat. Next time I'll use some heat first, to save breaking the screw, as in thread above. Cheers.
@Reese Williams @Paul Aslanides Damn interesting issue. My gut feel is the Australian ones are different to the Canadian ones. I have checked a few original bolts in small Coleman caps from 242B models. Canada 1936 = 0.160" Canada 1939 = 0.163" (this is very close to the UNC specification for 8/32) Aussie 1958 = 0.155" Aussie 1957 = 0.1535" Brass 5/32" Cheesehead BSW bolts I have = 0.151" (bit below the expected 0.15625") Interestingly, I found the steel Aussie cheeseheads went readily into the Canadian fittings but seemed a tad loose. The Canadian bolts both seemed to struggle to fir the Aussie inner fitting without force. My belief, from what I can see, is that the Coleman bolts are most likely UNC 8/32 and that the Aussie 242Bs have 5/32" BSW bolts in them. Main thing though is I have some spare bolts that fit. Now I can start planning to build one of those cap vices. I did try a stuck one in this measuring process and though I tightened it fully it wasn't budging. I tried a bit harder by rocking the screwdriver back and forwards a bit and that allowed me to tighten it a bit more and after a few more fwd and back twists on the screwdriver it gave way and unscrewed. Interesting. Regards to all from Victorian Lockdown Nbr 6.
I've checked four filler caps from two of 249 lanterns, and two of 242 lanterns. Two from Canada, one 242 from the USA, and one 249 from Australia. Hard to say which cap belongs where now, as there was a borrowing or two to get a new lantern going etc, two replacement inserts, and a new chrome-plated screw, all roundhead. The only cheese head filler cap screw I had got broken. The four screws range in diameter of: 0.158", 0.160", 0.160", 0.161", and all 32 TPI of course. Now, I used to believe that these were simply 5/32" screws with a few thou extra oversize, but within tolerance. . In those days I had never heard of UNEF - it's taken a lifetime to get this head around BA, BSW, BSF, UNC, UNF, ME, BSC, CEI, BSB, M/M fine & M/M coarse. Even two or three thread charts pinned to the wall is never enough! So thanks to Reese Williams for correcting me, and thanks to Sedgman for giving me the opportunity to confirm and correct my error. (Foot in mouth to change gear). I go now to revise The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam - it's much easier, safer, and less confusing than coping with all these lantern & pump threads.
@Sedgman @Paul Aslanides Paul, It makes sense that a lantern manufactured in Australia when BSW screws were the norm would use them. Since, as far as I know BSW was never used to any great extent in North America it makes sense SAE stuff was used here, especially with Coleman America setting up the production in Canada. With the automotive plants and all there was so much cross-border manufacturing going on that using one standard would seem reasonable. Sedgman, By tightening, I meant the filler cap. I wrap a piece of leather around the cap and use a pair of pliers to tighten it. Even with the hardest dry gasket it will hold enough to loosen the screw. I have occasionally applied some penetrating oil and patience to the screw if it looked to be excessively rusted. Another key is to use a good hollow ground screwdriver that fits the slot. Most common screwdriver have a blade that is wedge shaped when viewed from the thin side. These blades will tend to climb out of the slot. Hollow ground screwdrivers are made so that the flats of the blades are parallel. Choosing one of the right thickness to fit the slot means the pressure of the blade is transferred more directly to the whole of the screw slot and reduces the risk of buggering the screw head. A set with interchangeable bits is the easiest way to have the right tool at hand. The Chapman Manufacturing set 9600 is a good all round set for GPA fettling. No doubt someone down under makes something similar.
The issues you've raised and the sheer number of different lantern thread types is what got me collecting old tap and die sets. One set even included a thread gauge which is invaluable! For the mechanically minded I suggest searching for reasonably priced old tap and die sets.
Reese Williams Yes, the Chapman screwdrivers are incomparable. I have a couple of the little ratchets, very handy in cramped places. Unfortunately could never afford a full set, always other priorities. And yes, the average screwdriver is an awful compromise. Years ago I used to heat treat screwdriver blades of various sizes; I reckon we lost more to the bottom of the quench tank than came up the conveyor belt; if they didn't jam the belt they put plenty of holes in it. ColinG Yes, half your luck with finding tap & die sets - flea markets here invariably have a box of rusty old taps for say $x each. Some sellers charge double for metric, then others charge double for BSF, or something else; there's no hard and fast rule. So you start hunting through the mixed contents, but you can't read the worn lettering, and anyway you've forgotten which sizes you were after, but you buy a couple and when you get home find that you have that size already.....aaarrrggghhh. So you write a list of what you need, and stick it in your wallet; and put some steel wool and scourer pads in your backpack ready for you next foray to the market. So that next time you start cleaning the shanks of the taps to read the size, then remember the list in your wallet, but by this time your hands are filthy, and the list has disintegrated after six months in a mouldy leather pouch, and there's no room on the rickety table to sort out what you need, or you're kneeling on the ground sorting out taps and dies on a ratty old piece of plastic that they call a tarp. Ironic that the most useful tools are the most neglected, thrown together to get blunt, expensive even second-hand, but never cleaned or prepared for sale. Fun and games alright. Still, it's surprising what odd sizes may turn up, just what you need, sometimes.
Which I appreciate. Should I ever come across such situation where one would be needed, it would be nice to know where to get it.
My solution to the 'which tap do I need' problem is to find complete sets! I've pretty much stopped looking now as I found most of what I am likely to need apart from the odd proprietary thread pitch or the Tilley Bicycle thread taps and dies. I'd buy a set of BSC taps and dies in a heart beat if any came up at a reasonable price but being relatively rare they really hold their value!
