First post- hello, and inevitably some questions!

Discussion in 'Pressure Lamp Discussion Forum' started by Mark_H, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. Mark_H United Kingdom

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    Hi. I’m Mark, in the UK and a fan of things like old typewriters, gramophones, landrovers. I know my way round a set of spanners. Thanks for all the enthusiasm and knowledge here, I’ve been enjoying learning.

    I somehow found myself buying a Tilley x246B (05/75) recently, and have been really enjoying using it. Like lots of well made old things it has a sense of quality and satisfaction of use. A pic below.

    2AEAB976-8731-44DF-9230-FE90F417B4FF.jpeg

    CC06C7A7-DE85-459B-96E5-A61B8CD5A389.jpeg

    Yesterday I picked up another 246b (9/80) from a blurry marketplace picture for £8. It was once red, but has had the worst paint job in history.

    A8647C4D-6023-4083-83BF-FD586EA9E0D3.jpeg

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    I have a number of questions, and hopefully these aren’t too ignorant…

    1. The fount I think is brass, so I could strip the paint and have bare brass instead? (There seems to be some classical debate about whether to keep things original, but at this stage I just want to understand the options!)

    2. If I were to strip, the old red paint will inevitably go - I don’t see any way to get rid of the topcoat only. Is there a known paint code for the Tilley red?

    3. The pump needs a spring and washer. I’ve see fettle box and base camp sites, and could order a whole seal kit, but thought I’d read here that 246a and 246b needed different washers for the pump. Could anyone advise which kit I need please?

    4. Can dents be removed from the fount? I’m not that concerned, more interested to see if there is a process

    5. I see comments that the hood is enamelled and there isn’t a paint suitable. I’ve used heat paint on motorcycle engines in the past, but I’m guessing this has already been tried, and found unsuitable?


    Thanks all, and @Broadlander, thanks for the helpful YouTube videos.
     
  2. bp4willi

    bp4willi Germany Subscriber

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    1. Yes. Although will still be quite a job for polishing.
    2. Other will know.
    3. 246b
    4. Severl methods discussed in this forum... Ice, pressure and blow torch, dent pull ... Try search function to find the details.
    5. Yes. I would leave hood as is. Other claim success with colours 800°C.
     
  3. JEFF JOHNSON

    JEFF JOHNSON United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Welcome aboard!:thumbup:
     
  4. BigStevie

    BigStevie United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi Mark and welcome to the forum.
    A couple of X246b lamps, a good place to start. You’ll find the quality of the earlier lamps is much better than the X246b.
    A word of warning, now you’ve two they do tend to breed!
    Happy fettling!
     
  5. Mark_H United Kingdom

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    Thanks everyone. Some new parts now ordered, and paintstripper at the ready. I'll post some more pics in due course.

    @BigStevie - reproducing - yes I'm worried about this :-) .Already seen the railway /spotlight versions that look very interesting...
     
  6. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    1. You could strip it but then you'd have to keep on polishing it - which is why they were painted from the start. Otherwise use clear lacquer to prevent tarnishing but then you might as well have just painted it in the first place.
    2. Not that I'm aware of but no-one cares anyway so just paint it any old bright red colour (or whatever hue takes your fancy really).
    3. What you don't need is an 'old 498' kit because that contains the plain NRV washer (part no. 155) for older X-series lanterns. You need the newer 'shaped' NRV washer which is a sort of square with rounded corners and a spigot thing on the back which engages in the end of the NRV spring. If you buy a newer SP1 kit you'll probably end up with the correct NRV washer but much else besides, most which you probably won't need - a new knob for instance.
    4. If I was going to respray, in the dim and distant past (~15 years ago) I have used car body filler on the dents. But IMHO, it's far too much bother for an X246B so either get another with a better tank or live with the dents - try to think of them as 'character' or 'reflecting the history' of the lantern. But again, no-one really cares.
    5. The hood is vitreous enamelled i.e. it has a molten glass coating. This is positively not the same as enamel paint. This got its name from being very glossy to mimic vitreous enamel in appearance (but nothing else). There is no heat-proof paint that has a gloss finish and none of them will withstand the temperature of a lantern hood anyway - despite what it says on the tin. Ponder this - if a suitable paint finish was available then lantern manufacturers would have used that instead of vitreous enamel to save money. The same situation still applies today.

    You might well think that - until you try a Vapalux or Bialaddin lantern, anyway... :)
     
  7. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    Welcome to CPL @Mark_H

    As David said the Tilley service pack 1 will supply all the parts for a full fettle. If you just want the washers Tilley sell a washers only kit for the 246B Washer set
     
  8. David Shouksmith

    David Shouksmith United Kingdom Founder Member

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    Looks like there are two Tilley 498 kits - old and new. It's the 'new' one you want for the X246B...
     
  9. Buggerlugs

    Buggerlugs Australia Subscriber

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    Looks like your Tilleys are breeding, but don't worry this is normal hahaha. You are in the right place that's for sure.
     
  10. rayw United Kingdom

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    Welcome, easy to understand your addiction to thigs well made, I have a growing number of lamps and heaters (but I'm not a collector) and just sold my TD5 90 Land Rover which I had for over 8 years, not to mention the olympus OM cameras, hope you are able to control the lamp addiction.
     
  11. Mark_H United Kingdom

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    Thank you all for the welcome. I note a number of Aussies here - G’day - I spent 14 years living in Sydney and working there, Melbourne, Brisvegas and Perth. I guess the old British background means there are a bunch of Tilleys knocking around?
     
  12. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Many Tilleys in Australia, Mark.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  13. Mark_H United Kingdom

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    Some good progress today while waiting for the seal kit and new mantle to arrive. Paintstripper, 0000 wire wool and some metal polish did well. I mounted the tank in my lathe (very carefully!) to make polishing easier. Pump rod, pump body and vap tube were 600 grit wet sanded on the drill press.

    CEA51632-4292-478B-BD40-6505D8CA4022.jpeg


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  14. BigStevie

    BigStevie United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @Mark_H

    You’ve been busy! Well done, you’ve put the hours in!
     
  15. MYN

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    Welcome to the forum, Mark.
    Great fettling project. Since you've already stripped the paint down to bare brass, would you re-paint it or prefer to polish it to a specular, mirror-finish? It appears to me you are going for the latter?
    If you are going for paint, I'd suggest to use a good quality automotive finish. Preferably similar to what the auto OEMs are using. Otherwise, you could also find those two-pack epoxy, polyurethane or acrylic coatings being pretty durable and solvent-resistant.
    If you prefer polishing it to a mirror, you can use wet-sanding, starting with a medium/coarser grit to remove all scratches and then followed by finer and finer grit sizes.
    I have used the following grit size in sequence for metals: 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 5000 and lastly 7000. By the time you reach 3000, the metal surface would be very shiny. After 5000 and 7000 or anything higher, the item would appear like a clear, specular mirror. - Even without using any polishing or buffing compounds. But you can still even out your final touch by using Mothers, Autosol, etc after the wet sanding.
    Unfortunately, bright bare brass will not hold its shine as it would re-tanish as a natural passivation course.
     
  16. Mark_H United Kingdom

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    Well, apologies for such a long gap between posts, but this lamp is now done!

    First I tried silver soldering the tank, but not having a a good blowtorch I was getting a bit of all or nothing effect - several times the filler neck detached completely and fell inside the tank. Here’s an early attempt….

    30E4ED86-7710-4B5F-B7DE-0ACAF42091C7.jpeg

    Clearly an aesthetic disaster!

    Further attempts much neater, and seemed airtight
    9565D9E6-F9B3-4EA1-804E-08FA9E414F0E.jpeg

    But sadly after fully cooled overnight was still leaking. By this point I’d had 7 or 8 attempts to seal the cracks, and came to the realisation that I didn’t have the right tools.

    It also seemed that when new, these fillers would have been jointed from the inside before the base went on, which meant I’d never really get a good seal this way with my skill level.

    So, I attempted the epoxy route. Araldite metal to be precise.
    82CFC04D-0C7C-48AB-8AD3-830DA5D67E15.jpeg

    Not the most beautiful - but it works! I smeared this on the inside rim, then used the pump body to sort of hang the base from to exert a ‘clamping’ pressure. Then went round the outer rim. Left for 24 hours, and pressure tested. Success. I can sand off the lumps in due course.

    Not too bad for £8 and some seals.
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    First light
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    So, that’s one more rescued from landfill, and it’ll get used regularly, and looks nice. Thanks for the useful advice along the way

    What do I look for next? And earlier x246? Or a petromax?

    Happy Christmas all.
     
  17. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    G'day Mark, I've seen worse repairs :lol:. But it's working and otherwise cleaned up nicely. Congratulations :thumbup::thumbup:

    Were you using lead solder, often called electrical solder (50% lead / 50% tin)? It's best for this type of repair.

    Merry Christmas
     
  18. MYN

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    Merry Christmas.
    Soldering requires quite a lot of practice to make perfect. Sometimes its not easy to get the solder to wet the metal. You need to get the area concerned hot enough. Its not easy for a pump and fount due to heat can easily get conducted away from the intended area while, the other non-intended parts of the fount gets overly hot to hold.
    You'd need a gas torch to heat the area fast enough to melt the solder. Having the right flux often determines whether or not it'd be successful.
    I have used a reactive (acidic zinc chloride) flux for soldering large steel, brass and copper sections. They are much more efficient than the resin flux used for small electronics solder. Resin flux is non-reactive on metals and preferred over other more nasty fluxes for delicate work. They don't cause corrosion.
    On the other hand, reactive/acidic fluxes start to work, removing surface oxidation even before you heat the parts and they don't burst into flames if overheated by a gas torch. But, beware of the toxic zinc chloride fumes.
    On many such occasions, I have used with success, a 200-300W electric soldering gun as heat source instead of a propane or butane torch.
    On my accounts, the reactive flux was so effective that the melted solder immediately adhered to the metal area that I suspect wasn't even that hot. I could touch with my finger, the spot that was just next to the solder even before it re-solidified.
    On the negative side, you'd need to ensure that all areas are flushed clean from the acidic residues after the job, else they'd definitely promote corrosion later on.
    Anyway, the Araldite epoxy is pretty strong and should hold. It is generally fuel-resistant but only prolonged exposure would tell. Most epoxies are not resistant to UV radiation, so you might want to overcoat it with acrylic or polyurethane finish if its going to be frequently exposed to direct sunlight.
     
  19. Henry Plews

    Henry Plews Subscriber

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    Correct. This is also the case with the control cock fitting and the studs to which the cage fastens on earlier models. This applies to Vapalux / Bialaddin lamps and other makes too.

    I guess you've already realised that that is really the only way to keep the joint tight and would have worked for soldering. Sometimes, just getting the area hot enough for the existing solder to run is enough to effect a repair though adding a little more solder will do no harm.
    As with all soldering jobs, cleanliness is paramount, use a cleaner/degreaser or acetone or even a good detergent to remove all trace of fuel residue before applying flux.

    All that said, not only do you now have a working lantern, you're a little further around the learning curve. :thumbup: :thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  20. Tilleyz13

    Tilleyz13 United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Good morning Mark and welcome,
    As to the problem of repairing your hood I can assure you that that any high temperature paint be it VHT, Hycote, or any other bbq or firepit paint will not survive the burn of a Tilley /vapalux ect as its to high for said paints, the only way my friend is to re enamel or purchase a similar hood of said market sites, I however offer you a solution to the enamel problem as I've self taught myself to enamel, witch has been with out its hiccups I may add please give me a shout if your interested.
    Kind regards
    Allan
    @Tilleyz13
     

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