Hi all I have a Geniol HK150. I have not been able to find a manual for it so I am in doubt about the correct distance from the nozzle up to the tube in order to get the correct air mixture. Can anyone help with the correct distance in cm? Thank you in advance BR Casper
@Casper Falden that distance looks correct to me. Some have been known to have the four raising bars on the globe cage too short, so the distance between the jet and mixing tube at those is too small, but that doesn't seem to be the case with yours. However, these little cuties are a little bitchy when it comes to getting them to run properly, as an already slightly enlarged jet has a much greater effect on proper fuel/air mixture than at the larger models. In addition, even a small leak at the jet seat will cause the mix ratio to be too rich. Unfortunately, the new nozzles that can be obtained today are often not of good quality, so there will probably have to be some experimentation here.
Martin has given some good advice. The gap looks right as I always adjust these to the maximum gap they can be. These model lanterns, whether from Geniol, Santrax, Petromax etc., have a mixed reputation. Some work well but others are always a challenge. I suspect it is a combination of the tolerances on different parts. Btw, what fuel are you using?
Hi Thanks for all replies. I found out this evening that I had a small leak at the nozzle threads. It is fixed now but the lantern is still burning a little too rich/orange. I cannot raise the Mixit tube any further. Any thoughts on what I can do? Can I find another nozzle with smaller hole anywhere? Regarding fuel I am just using normal petroleum from Harald Nyborg. I always use this - and experience no issues on my other lanterns no matter the brand
Like said these 150cp version are or can be temperamentful. As for the distance: the nut will always in the way to make a bigger distance since it functions as part of the J-tube intake. How much distance do you have know? Writing this I guess the only way is to lower the vaporiser which means grinding of Xmm from the top. But I have no idea how much thread there is on that spot. Off coarse you then also must shorten the needle rod.
I will measure the distance tomorrow and get back to you - and also see if I perhaps can gain 1/2-1mm further distance by letting the nut go a little further down
Hi! On a Santrax 150CP I had I added a heat deflector ring above the mixing chamber, lower end of u tube. It was a tip from @bp4willi wich helped me get it going well. Regards Matti
Hi Matti That sounds interesting but I am not sure I completely understand how to do it. Do you have a few images you can show me or perhaps a sketch? BR Casper
A heat deflector (homemade in this case) looks like this: I made this one from a part obtained in the bathroom shop in the hardware store.
I just did a little test where I raised up the entire top with a washer I cut in two. This works quite well so if I could make a large ring/“washer” that fits in this place all the way round it would be a quite easy fix. It still burns a little to yellow/orange in my opinion (hard to see on image), so perhaps a combination of the large ring + a heat deflector would be the way to go.
Hi again! See the postings here: Unflaming a Santrax Rapid 150CP I used a lid from a tin can, probably ”Mutti crushed tomatoes”. A pic from bp4willi: Regards Matti
uh the idea was to make the space between the nut and the top of the jet bigger, not smaller. As said there are versions which have a shorter, to short, globe cage. There you have the answer for fizing: make a highre globe cage. Does somebody know what the right heights are between the two globe cage rings?
What I mean is that I will try to let the nut grab less of the thread on the U-tube. This will make me able to pull up the tube 1/2-1 mm higher if possible. I dont know if that will help by making the distance the vaporized petroleum has to travel a little longer - but it is worth trying I can also see from Mattis link that perhaps it is worth investigating another smaller mantle even though the one I have is for 150
I would suggest that you extend the height of the four globe cage posts, if it turns out that this would be the optimal solution. I have done this before for a friend with one of those where the posts were too short with good success. Just raising the inner hood will at some point get in conflict with the proper seat of the outer hood. First drill away the four rivets on the posts at the upper ring, then drill holes in the posts from above and cut M3 threads into them. Then you can adjust the distance optimally with small sleeves and fix the upper ring again with M3 countersunk head screws. And this modification cannot be seen when you just look at the lantern.
That is a very good idea Martin The only thing I am thinking about this approach is that there will be a limited space for the screw head when placing the “hat”. I know you write countersunk, but will that work ok with so thin material thickness in the plate?
@Casper Falden Before you modify the cage, Do first the simple try with the heat deflector as shown by @Matti Kucer This solution worked for me in many 150/250/500 cp petromax. If not successful you can still try modify the cage. But i would put this ultinate step to #3. 2nd would be shrinking the yet orifice size to correct 150cp size. Because from your pic the gap from jet to mix tube looks right. Should be 7-11 mm on these 150cp lanterns.
Ved good bp4willi I will start with the heat deflector. Any tips on the outer diameter of the deflector or is it not so important?
@Casper Falden Something about 1,5-2 times burner diameter. You can make a ring from tin lid. Then cut it radial, bend it, shift it onto the mixing tube above the mixing chamber. By this radial cut and bend, you can apply the tin ring, without need to disassemble the mixing tube -mixing chamber -burner -mantle
I understand but the curial distance is that between the jet top and the undersdie of the nut. That space will influence air intake. Normally the underside of the J-tube is the lowest point because the parts that fixate the J-tube are place in the inner hood. As for the length of the globe cage legs: if you cut them and solder extension tubes over them you don't have to drill out the rivets. Of coarse it will give another look. This is the Tilley methode on the BR versions. The deflector option is also a more "simple" aproach.
Yes, it definitely will. I've done that before and it worked. First I tried with cheese head screws, but then the inner hood came a bit too high to seat the outer hood correctly. But just as @bp4willi suggested: First try the less invasive methods and mount a heat deflector. Once that doesn't improve things you now got plenty of ideas to proceed.
Hi @Casper Falden , The air gap distance of your Geniol already looks right. There is a limit to how much more you can increase that. The actual problem could well be a worn jet orifice if the burn is too rich. Sometimes, increasing the air gap does improves things but not always. Before altering the lantern, do try out a few of the mentioned suggestions. As another alternative to increase the gap just to find out if it makes any difference, you can also temporarily slide some metal strips(1-2mm thk), equally spaced, under the frame cage collar to raise its height. Or, do not tighten down fully, the central screw that's holding the frame cage/baseplate to the fount. Light up the lantern and then very steadily lift the entire frame/cage up by 1-2mm while wearing a pair of leather gloves. That'd effectively increase the air gap too. If the burn doesn't improve in any way, it would not be worth increasing the air gap distance. You might be better off getting a new jet instead.
The part discribed by @bp4willi is not a heat shield but a heat accumulation ring .The heat should be trapped underneath to better preheat the fuel in the carburetor. Petromax installed this part as standard in the 30s to early 50s. A heat shield is useful above the fuel tank.A heat shield in the lamp head is only of limited use,sometimes even counterproductive.
@Reinhard You didn't get the point. The heat deflector ring above the mixing chamber has two effects.. ..it keeps the hot exhaust gases away from mixing tube, and ..it focuses more heat onto the Preston Loop.
I had the same thoughts as @bp4willi years ago.At that time I bought 10 such heat accumulation sheet rings. I installed them and did comparison tests. At first I Was thrilled but the longer they glowed the worse it got . I rebuilt them all and looked for the real cause of the bad glow . With the Geniol 150 it is often the J-tube , with the Geniol 250 it is mostly the Preston loop. If you install such a heat shield ring , you cover up the true cause of the error. That's botch.
If the reason is: short legs. Then that is the problem as well as solution. Cut them, solder a small tube between the 5mm elevated legs and voila. Off coarse the jet/needle combi should be OK.
